The art of cultivating a community
In this episode, hear from Marcus Forst (2019 cohort) about his memories of home, transition to Stanford, experiences navigating cancer, chemotherapy, and recovery, and ideas for how to check in on your friends.
Resources
Guest
Marcus Forst (2019 cohort), from Avondale, Pennsylvania, is pursuing a PhD in applied physics at Stanford School of Humanities and Sciences. He graduated from Temple University with a bachelor’s degree in physics. Marcus aspires to design and build the next generation of microscopes and tools for solving medical problems. In 2020, he worked with collaborators at the Chan-Zuckerberg Biohub to build an open source microscope that can determine if people have antibodies to COVID-19.
He studied novel electronic materials as a Diamond Research Scholar at Temple and interned at Friedrich Alexander Universität Erlangen-Nürnberg in Germany. For this work, he was named Temple University’s first Barry Goldwater Scholar. At Temple, he was president of the physics club, created a peer recitation program within the Physics Department, was an ambassador for the honors program, and managed the Temple men’s basketball team. He was principal trombone in the Philadelphia Youth Orchestra after being named to the Pennsylvania All-State Orchestra.
Hosts
Imagine A World is hosted by Sydney Hunt, left, and Willie Thompson, right.
Sydney Hunt (2023 cohort), from Cornwall, New York, is pursuing a PhD in electrical engineering with a focus on brain-computer interfaces (BCI) at Stanford School of Engineering. She graduated from Duke University with bachelor’s degrees in electrical/computer engineering and computer science (concentration in artificial intelligence and machine learning), and a minor in gender, sexuality, and feminist studies.
Willie Thompson (2022 cohort), from Griffin, Georgia, is pursuing a master's degree in business administration at Stanford Graduate School of Business and a master's degree in policy, organization, and leadership studies at Stanford Graduate School of Education. He graduated summa cum laude from Morehouse College with a bachelor’s degree in economics and a minor in Chinese Studies. Willie intends to create and contribute to organizations using the arts as a conduit for community building and intercultural education.
Imagine A World's theme music was composed and recorded by Taylor Goss. The podcast was originally conceived and led by Briana Mullen (2020 cohort), Taylor Goss (2021 cohort), and Willie Thompson, along with Daniel Gajardo (2020 cohort) and Jordan Conger (2020 cohort).
Special thanks to Rachel Desch (2023 cohort), Max Du (2024 cohort) Tanajia Moye-Green (2024 cohort), Ashley Yeh (2024 cohort), and Elle Rae Tumpalan, KHS marketing and events assistant.
Knight-Hennessy scholars represent a vast array of cultures, perspectives, and experiences. While we as an organization are committed to elevating their voices, the views expressed are those of the scholars, and not necessarily those of KHS.
Full transcript
Note: Transcripts are generated by machine and lightly edited by humans. They may contain errors.
Marcus Forst:
The actual cancer itself and the chemotherapy, for the most part, I think I didn't have too much of a problem with. I think the harder part was feeling lonely, which actually, it's interesting. I think people nowadays can understand a lot better with COVID. It was very fascinating for me all of a sudden when everyone started socially isolating and wearing masks and all that stuff.
My name is Marcus Forst. I'm a member of the 2019 cohort and a PhD student in applied physics. I imagine a world where people check in on their friends.
Sydney Hunt:
Welcome to the Imagine a World podcast from Knight-Hennessy Scholars. We are here to give you a glimpse into the Knight-Hennessy Scholar community of graduate students, spanning all seven Stanford schools, including business, education, engineering, humanities, law, medicine, and sustainability. In each episode, we talk with scholars about the world they imagine and what they are doing to bring it to life.
Willie Thompson:
Today we've got Marcus Forst, a fifth-year PhD candidate in applied physics. During our conversation, you'll hear Marcus's experience growing up in a small town, dreaming of a gluten-free croissant, his journey with cancer, how to build a microscope, and so much more.
Hey, what's up y'all? Welcome to another episode of the Imagine World Podcast. I am one of your co-hosts, Willie Thompson, a member of the 2022 cohort. I spent two years at the business school and now I'm at the ed school, and as always, I'm joined by a co-host and you heard her already in episodes past and present, you'll hear again, Sydney Hunt.
Sydney Hunt:
Hey everyone, my name's Sydney Hunt. I use she/her pronouns, and I am a member of the 2023 Knight-Hennessy Scholars cohort. I am a second year PhD student in electrical engineering, and I'm really, really excited for today's episode. So thanks for listening.
Willie Thompson:
Awesome terminal degrees. And our special guest for today is described as a nexus person. I heard that maybe 10, 15 minutes ago.
Marcus Forst:
Something like that. I don't actually know what that means.
Willie Thompson:
All right. Anyway, we got Marcus Forst on the podcast today. Everybody. What's up, Marcus?
Marcus Forst:
Great to be here.
Willie Thompson:
Well, dope. Well, look, we got so much to talk about. I heard your Imagine A World statement. Very simple.
Marcus Forst:
Thanks.
Willie Thompson:
Yet elegant.
Marcus Forst:
Oh, thank you.
Willie Thompson:
And I think it's hard to do.
Marcus Forst:
I don't know. I was thinking a bunch about imagining a world, and I think it's just... One of the things that I talked about in my Knight-Hennessy application and also just something that I really try and do myself, mostly because I wish other people would do it.
Willie Thompson:
Well, we've got the Imagine a World statement. You already talked about your application. I'm sure we'll get to in a second at some point in the conversation, but people know that at the beginning of these conversations, we always, well, actually before I even get to the opening question, how are you doing? I mean, you came from Mississippi, you've been in Palo Alto for a week now.
Marcus Forst:
It's a little odd. So I moved right before I went to Mississippi for two months. It was just kind of strange coming back here. I no longer lived in the house that I lived in for five years while I was here. And so just coming back to a house that I'd never actually... I'd slept in I guess two times. We didn't have pepper. I realized this is when I was first trying to cook here.
Willie Thompson:
As in the spice?
Marcus Forst:
Yeah. I was like, "How do we not have pepper?" Anyway, one of my former roommates must have taken the pepper. But it was definitely different and I'm still kind of adjusting to it. But I've had a couple of good days. I mean, recently I'm feeling a little more settled.
Sydney Hunt:
What is important for you to make your new home feel like home? Is there a turning point?
Marcus Forst:
I think it would be cool to have people over. I think that would help. I haven't actually done that yet. It definitely helped me to unpack a little bit more, specifically my room. But I think having people over for dinner or something and cooking, and I think that would help.
I've only cooked once in the house and that's just kind of weird. Outside of breakfast, which I feel like, I don't know, somehow doesn't count as much.
Willie Thompson:
Could have easily recorded this podcast at your house.
Sydney Hunt:
It's true.
Marcus Forst:
Yeah, we could have.
Willie Thompson:
And then you could have fed us.
Marcus Forst:
Yeah, that's true. I could have. But that'll happen. And it'll be good.
Willie Thompson:
Got it. And last question, and then we'll get to actually your origin story, but what's your go-to dish when you cook? Do you have a go-to thing where you're like, "I got to impress the people, let them know I'm nice with a skillet."?
Marcus Forst:
It depends and varies I guess. But I have a rotation, so I have a recipe from Tyler Chen who's actually also in my cohort of Knight-Hennessy. It's a larb dish. It's like a Thai ground meat dish.
Sydney Hunt:
Wow.
Marcus Forst:
Super, super good. Very simple. And so that's really great. It's a crowd pleaser. You eat it with lettuce wraps and then I'll often make salmon and broccoli. That's just a classic with rice. I also making kofta. So like lamb kofta, it's like lamb meatballs in like an Arab style and then you have it with labneh or hummus and...
Sydney Hunt:
Yum, that sounds really good.
Marcus Forst:
It's great.
Willie Thompson:
I know. I think you maybe made this happen.
Marcus Forst:
Yeah, and then I bring pita bread, which I can't eat, because I have celiac, but other people can eat and so I imagine it's good. Maybe that should have been my imagine a world thing is I imagine a world where there are gluten-free croissants. That would've been good.
Willie Thompson:
Wait, is there no such thing as a gluten-free croissant?
Marcus Forst:
I've never had one, so it's actually one of my life's dreams is to eat a croissant one day.
Sydney Hunt:
We should make that happen.
Marcus Forst:
Because I don't know what they taste like.
Willie Thompson:
There has to be someone in Knight-Hennessy who knows some-
Marcus Forst:
But they sound really good.
Sydney Hunt:
They are very good.
Willie Thompson:
For sure.
Marcus Forst:
It's like that and danishes, I feel like also look really good.
Sydney Hunt:
I think croissants are a little bit better than danishes, so I would do that first. But before we graduate, we should get you a gluten-free croissant.
Willie Thompson:
All right, people listening, if you know where we can find a gluten-free croissant for Marcus, please.
Marcus Forst:
Preferably a good one too-
Willie Thompson:
Good point.
Marcus Forst:
Because you never know. Because some of these, the other day I came home from Walmart, I was so excited they had these pretzels filled with, I don't know, it was like cheese or whatever. They're like pretzels filled with peanut butter or cheese, whatever. And I've never had that before, so I was all excited and then they were just horrible.
Sydney Hunt:
They're pretty bad.
Marcus Forst:
That was disappointing.
Willie Thompson:
Really?
Sydney Hunt:
Yeah.
Willie Thompson:
Is that consensus? Is that-
Marcus Forst:
Are they bad in gluten world too or?
Sydney Hunt:
I think they're bad with gluten included, yeah. But croissants are excellent, especially chocolate croissants. So, we need to find any bakery, any baker, any person who just wants to give Marcus a piece of a or a whole...
Willie Thompson:
A whole croissant.
Sydney Hunt:
Not just a piece, a whole croissant, send us an email. DM us.
Willie Thompson:
For sure, write us. Write us to the pod so we can fulfill this lifelong dream of Marcus. Well, cool. We have a lot of talk about, aside from your cooking skills and your desires to have what I call the perfect pastry in the croissant, but before we talk about the world you imagine, let's talk about the world you're born into and the world you experienced thus far.
So Marcus, the folks who are listening, where are you from and what was your journey here to Stanford?
Marcus Forst:
So, I'm from the suburbs of Philadelphia, so about an hour west by car.
Willie Thompson:
Avondale.
Marcus Forst:
And yes, Avondale, Pennsylvania. It's known as the mushroom capital of I guess the USA, and it's right by Kennett Square, which has famous like Kennett Square mushrooms. What that meant is that we had a minor advantage in all sporting events that were at home, because it smelled so badly of manure and mushrooms that it just, it really got to the other teams.
You'd think that we'd do better, but we actually, we actually didn't. We weren't in a powerhouse or anything, but it was actually pretty cool. You could just go and get a giant box of mushrooms for $5.
Sydney Hunt:
Nice.
Marcus Forst:
It was awesome.
Willie Thompson:
And so you grew up there with the mushrooms?
Marcus Forst:
That's correct.
Willie Thompson:
Something I find interesting in your background and you're up-bringing is that you were, last time I checked Avondale's over about 1,200 people, and we haven't had a ton of people on the pod who are from small towns. Will's born in a small town in France, Emily Russell's from a town about 5,000.
Now, I mean, Palo Alto is also not a big town, but I feel like you've experienced big towns and small towns in your life. What do you feel is so unique about small town that doesn't get noticed or shows up in your personality?
Marcus Forst:
It's interesting. I don't think I really thought of myself as being from a small town. Maybe because I grew up in a neighborhood, but I do think it's unique when I think about, I guess, California, or rather I should say the Bay Area with its sprawling suburb. I described Avondale as a suburb, but it's like the border of suburb and farm.
I think in my specific case, my world was very centered around this neighborhood, and so my brother and I, we would come home from school and then we would just walk around the neighborhood gathering up different friends. And basically, I don't know, try to play kickball or something like that.
To get back to your question of what's unique about the small town was maybe just that we had the space to do that, to just walk and I don't know, we were never afraid of anything. We just would bike around and walk around, and then come home for dinner and then maybe if I'm actually thinking back, it is interesting. I recently went to a wedding to my, well, I guess one high school friend.
It was cool because he invited a bunch of his high school friends who I knew, we weren't as close, but he also invited their parents. And it's interesting that I knew all of those parents. They all went to my church, and it's something I have thought about here, because there aren't a lot of people I feel like who talk about church in California.
Or if they do, it's I guess maybe not super centered and I wouldn't say that it didn't feel very, I guess, front of mind in high school. It felt very normal and I felt very easy and normal to see these people again, and honestly lovely. There's a part of me that wonders a little bit how other people in my high school I guess looked at me for going to church, which is something that I never would've even thought about in high school. So maybe it's just not weird in Avondale, but here I think it's a little more or different.
Sydney Hunt:
I mean, I think that makes a lot of sense. I feel like a lot of people, myself included, moving to a new place that's just so different from your hometown, you start to notice a lot of different little things that don't come up in conversation as much, or feelings that you don't realize you miss when you go back home and you see people in their little aspects and qualities that make it feel like time has never passed.
I guess my next question, following up on that is what was, I feel like, your community experience through growing up through college, coming to Stanford, how do you feel like on the topic of community that has transitioned, stayed the same, if anything?
Marcus Forst:
Yeah, I mean, I think the way that I would go around rounding up people to play kickball or basketball, or we had this game called Predator and Prey where we'd chase each other around. We'd pretend to be like gazelles or we'd pretend to, we'd switch through different climates, and I think I continued to do that when I went to Temple.
I tried to organize friends to all go to the football games or the basketball games. I did it probably a little less there. But then when I came to Stanford, I did this a lot. I did this a lot in Knight-Hennessy. I threw the Knight-Hennessy Halloween party. I decided that we should have a formal, and I threw the first Knight-Hennessy formal.
Willie Thompson:
Thank you for your service, by the way.
Sydney Hunt:
Nice. Both of those things are now tradition.
Marcus Forst:
For sure.
Sydney Hunt:
Wow. I feel honored to be sitting in the room with the person who started at all.
Marcus Forst:
I mean, I didn't start the Halloween party. I was the second person. When it was all student run, we'd pass it down basically to a first year. COVID also interrupted that. But I did those. I started the field day, which we haven't, I guess continued, but I loved, I guess, throwing events. And I've been in this that honors program at Temple and I wanted to bring some of that, that feeling to Knight-Hennessy.
I hope that I've been able to do that a little bit. So maybe that's the answer is everywhere I go, I try to find that neighborhood. In Avondale, it was my actual neighborhood and at Temple it was the honors program, and here it's been Knight-Hennessy.
Willie Thompson:
To that point, tell us about your experience going to college because you stay in state. You become an Owl, you become a Hooter, you do a lot of things at Temple, and I'm wondering for you, what were some of the things that drew you to Temple, led you to choose Temple, and then how was that experience formative for you in terms of how you then chose to pursue a terminal degree as they call?
Marcus Forst:
So, I'm a third generation Temple Owl, so my grandfather went there-
Sydney Hunt:
Hoo!
Willie Thompson:
Hoo! Hoo! Hoo!
Marcus Forst:
Something like that. I guess, do we have a call? I don't think we do.
Willie Thompson:
I don't know. I'm just doing... Is that actually what owls say? Hoo? Or is it just...
Marcus Forst:
I think there just depends probably on the owl, but I think... Sorry, I'm sorry. So my grandfather went there and then both my parents, my parents met there in the marching band, very cute.
My dad was the rebel trying to throw parties and stuff, and then my mom was the secretary or the treasurer or whatever of the marching band and very straight laced, and somehow they decided to start dating. I don't know. It feels like an 80s movie.
Willie Thompson:
What instruments did they play?
Marcus Forst:
Clarinet and trombone, which you can guess which one was which?
Willie Thompson:
Well, I was seeing a drum line, a drum line story here, but nevermind.
Marcus Forst:
So, they met at Temple and we used to go to Temple games. There's a picture of me, and this used to be more cool, being held by Bill Cosby at a basketball game. So, I don't know, used to go to basketball games all the time.
My grandmother has season tickets to watch basketball games. She knows all the people selling tickets, she knows all the security guards, and she gives lollipops everyone who's sitting around her.
Sydney Hunt:
That's so cute.
Marcus Forst:
To the point where I once, I introduced the... I think now interim president of Temple to my grandmother. I don't think he was at the time, but I guess I knew him from something and I saw him walking around.
I was like, "Oh, you've got to meet my grandmother." And she gave him a lollipop. And so now whenever the president of Temple University goes to a basketball game, he goes to my grandmother to get his lollipop. It's awesome.
Sydney Hunt:
I love that.
Willie Thompson:
In her bag like with a grandma with a peppermint. That's a Victoria Monet situation going on there too.
Marcus Forst:
She's great.
Willie Thompson:
What kind of lollipops, by the way? I'm just curious.
Marcus Forst:
It varies, mostly Tootsie Pops.
Sydney Hunt:
Oh, my dog's name was Tootsie.
Willie Thompson:
With the chocolatey center or...
Marcus Forst:
Yeah.
Willie Thompson:
Oh, bro, I haven't a Tootsie... When's the last time you had a Tootsie Pop?
Marcus Forst:
They're so good.
Sydney Hunt:
A lot, because my dog's name was Tootsie, and so ever since we got her, all of a sudden we had Tootsie Rolls, Tootsie Pops, everything in the house.
Marcus Forst:
They're great. They stand the test of time. So I think in the back of my head there was always comfort with just Temple and Philly, because we would go there pretty often. But then when I was applying for schools in high school, I was very ambitious looking up US News rankings. I want to go into the best places.
So I applied to, I guess, 11 schools, and I got fully rejected from every single school except for Temple, Pitt and UNC, which ended up being... It was too expensive. I was like, I'm not going to go. For out of state-
Sydney Hunt:
For out of state, it is.
Willie Thompson:
Yeah.
Marcus Forst:
... impossible. So, it came down to Temple and Pitt, and at my high school, basically the smart kids would just go to Pitt. This is just the pipeline. My high school was just a pipeline to Pitt.
You go to Pitt, you'd be an engineer and you'd work for the Pitt racing team, and then you'd get some amazing engineering job, and then that was just the path. So, I went to visit Pitt and I was like, this is nice, but I guess didn't really click, and my mom was like, she was like, "You have to apply to Temple," and then she was like, "You have to go to your visit."
And I went and I was like, "This is amazing." I saw Temple Honors used to do these shows. I guess they probably still do for accepted students to try and persuade them to go, and I was just blown away by the show. It was so funny, and people were so great. Everyone's just so friendly and it just felt amazing, instantly amazing.
Afterward, my parents and I went to watch an orchestra concert. I think it was like the Temple Orchestra was playing or something, and I was just like, whoa, I did not expect this visit to go this well. And then I came home and I was like, "Yeah, it's just I'm going to Temple." So, that's how it happened.
Sydney Hunt:
Then you became an Owl. It's official.
Willie Thompson:
Hoo!
Marcus Forst:
Sounds good to me.
Sydney Hunt:
Yeah, that's a beautiful story. I feel like I really like how you focus on so many of the little details of the feelings and places and the people that create that aura, that vibe that you really, really enjoy. I'm curious, you mentioned that Pitt is where the engineers go, etc., but you're now here at Stanford doing an Applied Physics PhD, which is still very, very STEM-y. Like where did that interest, I guess, come from?
Marcus Forst:
I mean, I've always liked science and math in class. Math, I think, I just found fun, but I think I also have to credit my mom. So my mom would come in in my first and second grade class. She would come in and do science demos-
Sydney Hunt:
Oh, cute.
Marcus Forst:
... for the class. And so there was this one demo that she used to do where she would take these markers and put it on a coffee filter and then dip it in water, and it's show all the different pigments that were all making this black marker.
Willie Thompson:
Hold on, describe that again because I'm going to try this later tonight.
Marcus Forst:
So you basically, it's been a long time, since it's first grade. But I don't know if you draw with the marker, you dip, or you take the back off and dip it in the pool of ink. But then if you put it in water, it just disperses all the ink. I guess maybe because some capillary action and the different colors or different weights or something.
Willie Thompson:
Through a coffee filter, basically.
Marcus Forst:
We should ask my mom. I don't actually know the science behind it.
Willie Thompson:
We'll do a parents' episode next time.
Marcus Forst:
But I just remember it blew my mind. It was also fun. I just felt so cool that my mom was here showing us science. It was just... I think I wanted to, I don't know, it inspired a lot of pride and I just wanted to, I guess, be like my mom.
Sydney Hunt:
Was she a scientist?
Marcus Forst:
She wasn't. She was going to be a chemist and then a chemistry teacher, but she switched her undergrad to computer science, which is pretty sick, which she always loves science. And definitely, we would go to the nature center and we go to the zoo all the time and read lots of dinosaur books and stuff like that.
Sydney Hunt:
Nice. I love it. Yay, women in STEM, I'm happy to hear that.
Marcus Forst:
In CS in the 80s, it's pretty good.
Sydney Hunt:
It's really impressive.
Marcus Forst:
She's just really, really smart. So, makes sense.
Willie Thompson:
Well, so you're at Temple. You're doing a bunch of stuff at Temple. We might get to some of that in your improbable facts section, but you graduate and then there's this whole coming to Stanford piece and research.
And I know a lot of what can be found about you and what you're studying is around building next generation microscopes and tools for solving medical problems. I want to know what got you interested in solving medical problems, first and foremost, how do you build a microscope? You know what I'm saying? I wonder if-
Marcus Forst:
If you're really curious, I actually, I took a class last year that was on building scientific syllabi, and I wrote a class called, "So you want to build a Microscope."?
Willie Thompson:
Like a play on Frozen, on Do You Want to Build a Snowman or...
Marcus Forst:
No.
Willie Thompson:
Sorry, I'm just...
Marcus Forst:
It's actually a play on...
Willie Thompson:
I'll stop.
Marcus Forst:
It's okay. You're so smart, you're referencing things, but I am actually doing a reference this time.
Willie Thompson:
Go ahead. What's the reference this time? For some reason you said it, I heard it sung as like Do You Want to Build a Snowman for some reason? Anyway.
Marcus Forst:
<<Do you want to build a microscope?>>
Sydney Hunt:
<<Come on, let's go and look.>>
Willie Thompson:
<<I think I see bacteria.>>
Marcus Forst:
So good.
Sydney Hunt:
<<On the sled.>>
Willie Thompson:
All right. Sorry.
Sydney Hunt:
Go. Sorry.
Marcus Forst:
It's a play on the book series, So You Want to be a Wizard?
Willie Thompson:
Oh.
Marcus Forst:
Which is somewhat niche, but very good, at least it was when I read it in third grade or whatever.
Willie Thompson:
Lasting impact.
Marcus Forst:
The main components of a microscope are the lenses, which focus the light and then the camera. The most simple microscope that I would have people build in that class is basically there's this thing called an objective lens, which is the thing you think about in a microscope that you turn and it changes the magnification. You know what I'm talking about? It has the colors on it.
Willie Thompson:
Yeah. It's been a long time since I've held a microscope, but the turning helped me figure it out.
Marcus Forst:
Exactly. It turns and it has colors on it. The colors tell you which magnification it is.
Willie Thompson:
Got you.
Marcus Forst:
And that thing, it looks like a cylinder with a little cone at the end. That is actually a bunch of different lenses that basically just take the light and then take the light from something really small and then blow it up so it's bigger. That's what gives you the magnification.
The most important thing that it does in I guess nowadays is that it takes the light and turns it into a beam that you can then send different places and do different things to. Once you have that part, all you need is one more part to make it a, I guess, two more parts to make it a functioning microscope. And that's another lens.
So, when you're thinking about the tabletop microscope that you turn the wheels, and it moves the stage up and down, you have an eyepiece that you look into. That is the second lens that I'm talking about is the eyepiece. In the microscope where you use a camera, you just have a different lens that focuses onto a camera.
Willie Thompson:
I see.
Marcus Forst:
So, you basically need two lenses and then a camera, and then that's your microscope.
Willie Thompson:
You make it sound so simple.
Marcus Forst:
I mean, it is funny. When I started my project, I was trying to make this super fancy-schmancy microscope, and I basically found that the more parts I added, the worse it got, and so I eventually just stripped it down. And so my microscope actually looks quite a bit like that, where it's just two lenses.
And then I do some somewhat, I mean, it's not even fancy. It's just somewhat more complex than nothing work to make the illumination better, to basically shine light in a specific way to make it really uniform on the surface. But besides that, it's pretty straightforward. I like to call it elegant, even though I feel funny when I go to a conference, and people have their pictures of their super complex microscopes and mine's just elegant.
Sydney Hunt:
Hey, if it works, it works.
Marcus Forst:
To your point about, I guess how I started on this project, so I did a capstone project at Temple where I built a microscope, or actually it was an interferometer, which is-
Willie Thompson:
A homono, what?
Marcus Forst:
It's similar to a microscope. So what I was trying to do is I was trying to watch sound waves move through a material. So if I bang on this table, you hear it because the atoms are basically shaking and you hear that shaking, but you can't actually see it. So I wanted to see that.
And so the way that we were trying to do that was basically pass some light through a crystal like this and pass an identical beam of light through basically the same crystal, and then have them come back together. And so if nothing is happening, you basically have these two light beams that are identical. They're seeing the same crystal, they come back together, everything looks that's the same.
It's basically like you just shine the light at the wall. But if you do something to one of the beams but not the other, it changes the light in that beam. And so when they come back together, you get an interference pattern. And so that's what we were trying to measure. That's why they call it an interferometer because you're interfering with one of the two beams of light.
It was really fun. I really enjoyed making it, and I remember my, I guess, the professors teaching the course saying something during the course about, "Sometimes I wish that I'd done more bio applications or medical applications," or something. And so that stuck with me. And when I came to Stanford, I realized pretty quickly that what had been very deep love for physics and just learning physics had turned into a deep desire to do something with that, and I wanted to do something more applied.
And maybe being in Knight-Hennessy also influenced this, where there just all these people running nonprofits and just doing all this crazy stuff. And I was like, "Whoa, I want to get a piece of that." And I care about medicine because I was diagnosed with cancer at the, I guess, end of my freshman year of college, and I spent a lot of time, I guess, I spent three and a half years of chemotherapy. And I spent a lot of time in hospitals and I've had a lot of procedures.
I basically walked into my now-advisor's office to meet with him and I said, "Hey, I want to build something, and I want to use optics to solve some medical problem," basically, "and I want to use optics in medicine." He basically suggested this project, try and non-invasively count white blood cells so that people who... Basically, chemotherapy patients don't have to get as many blood draws.
Because one of the things, oftentimes people going through chemotherapy will die not actually from the cancer itself, but because they're immunosuppressed, and they get sick from some random disease. You can also imagine that going to a hospital is somewhat dangerous for someone who's immunosuppressed. Because there are all these sick people going to the hospital.
And so they would always have me basically get a blood test, make sure I was safe enough basically to go to the hospital to get chemotherapy or healthy enough. And I was really inspired by this project to try and basically make it so people didn't have to do that. Now, of course, I pivoted off of that and didn't succeed, but someone else probably will. It'll be better down the road. But that's how I started.
Sydney Hunt:
Thank you for sharing that. That's a very inspiring story, and I love and appreciate how you're trying to make that really challenging experience of navigating cancer better for other people. My mom has stage four, and so I know it's not an easy journey, not personally, so I can't really, and I think you both are-
Marcus Forst:
Trying to understand.
Sydney Hunt:
From an outside perspective, I don't know from the actual, and I admire her a lot, and I admire you a lot for your strength in adversity, and it makes me happy to see both of you, not trying, but actually doing and paving the way to make that less painful for other people in the future.
Willie Thompson:
Follow up on Sydney's point there. I mean, I think so much of your life changes when you're going through chemo and recovering. How did you cope and then what do you feel like your experience with cancer gave you perspective on?
Marcus Forst:
I guess, I was really focused on surviving. I think the actual cancer itself and the chemotherapy, for the most part, I think I didn't have too much of a problem with. There was one specific month, I think it was September of 2015 that was really bad. It was just a horrible month. That was really bad.
It was also the first time I was diagnosed in April. It was the first time that I ever felt sorry for myself. I was like, "Why? Why is this happening to me?" I think the harder part was feeling lonely, which actually, it's interesting. People nowadays can understand a lot better with COVID.
It was very fascinating for me all of a sudden when everyone started socially isolating and wearing masks and all this stuff, and I was like, "Whoa, this is very similar to what I had to do." And it's very jarring to just be pulled out of your life. That was just by far the hardest part, not actually the cancer stuff itself.
I mean, there are procedures that aren't super fun. You just keep breathing, but having all your friends go back to school and you're not there. And then I couldn't have roommates until I finished, just for immunosuppression reasons. So that's just pretty lonely, honestly, and it's something I don't think I even fully appreciated.
Well until I lived, my senior year, I lived with my brother and three other people. It was super, super fun. But then coming to Stanford, it wasn't even a question. It was like," I want to live with roommates." I know a lot of people, they get to grad school and they're like, "All right, enough of this." But I was so alone and so lonely at Temple, and so that was really nice to be back.
I think that was the hardest part. That, and just the duration, just because... So I had seven months of intense chemotherapy followed by roughly three years of maintenance chemotherapy, where I would have chemo once every four weeks. It's just, I guess, exhausting. I just had to really narrow what I spent time on, and I was always really curious.
I was like, what am I going to do when I get 25% of my time back? What's going to happen? Am I going to be amazing scientist, or am I going to learn Spanish or I don't know, to bake...
Willie Thompson:
Gluten-free croissants?
Sydney Hunt:
Yeah, Gluten-free croissants.
Marcus Forst:
I didn't do that. I'm bad at baking. And what ended up happening is I ended up just using that 25% of time to just hang out with people. And it's so funny.
I think I do the exact same amount of science as I did when I was basically working three weeks and then taking a week off. But my life's certainly richer, and it was just much better.
So I think that narrowing down on that helped. And then I guess in terms of the loneliness, being a little more proactive about a to stay connected with people was really helpful. I think this is the whole Imagine a World thing.
Willie Thompson:
You literally were teeing up that, and I'm pretty sure Sydney has a question on this. And I will say, it's interesting because what I heard you talk about is basically this idea that it's not a past tense thing. It's a thing that... You're always coping in a way.
We're not always coping, but to the point that you brought it up, you came to Stanford, "I want roommates." That was a way you were dealing with some of the ramifications of your experience, which I hadn't thought of that as an experience you have.
Marcus Forst:
I think in some ways there are good things that I've brought from it. And then there are some things I've tried to unlearn. Specifically, I had an amazing therapist at Stanford. Shout out Stanford Caps, and Dr. Dakwar, shout out. And she used to be like, "That's great, Marcus, but you're not sick anymore." She's like, "You need to rewire your brain," because I had this very-
Willie Thompson:
Truly said like a therapist.
Marcus Forst:
It was honestly great advice because I had narrowed the way that I viewed life. To be very short, just for these four week periods was just like my whole world, because it just literally just didn't feel like it made any sense to think beyond this four weeks, even when I guess rationally I was probably going to be fine since November 2015. But I've had to unlearn that, and it's like it's okay to plan far in advance, and it's also okay not to maximize for daily dopamines.
You'll actually be more happy if you don't just hit the dopamine button on your phone, and if you go work out or go to lab or whatever. And so I think there's some good things. I remember how it felt to want people to basically ask how I was doing, and I remember how it felt to be sick, and I remember how it felt to be poked by needles, and these are things that I try really hard to make better for the people around me. But they're also probably bad things that I've had to unlearn, and I think I'm getting there.
Sydney Hunt:
It's a work in progress, baby steps. You're doing great.
Marcus Forst:
I think one of the things about cancer that I guess struggled with was this idea that people didn't know what to say. When I'm talking to you guys about coping or how it affected my life, I think that the ways that it affected me, actually just very normal, you don't have to have cancer to feel lonely or I guess rewire your brain a little bit. I don't think it's as un-understandable I guess think sometimes people think, and really the way that you're feeling is I think just very human.
The advice that I'll give people if they have a family member who has cancer or something or gets diagnosed and then talks to me is like, "Hey, what should I say?" Is just to ask people, "Hey, how are you feeling today?" And it's a very specifically worded question because oftentimes people would be like, "Oh, I'm thinking about you." Or, "I'm praying for you."
And that's just the end of a sentence or not the end of a sentence. It's the end of a conversation. And that's great as an end of a conversation, but it's not an open, it's not like a beginning. And it also doesn't make any kind of judgment as to how you're feeling because probably you're not feeling great realistically. It's like, "Oh, I hope you're doing well today." It's like, "Well, I'm not."
It's just something I think I wish, I guess people had asked me, because like I said, it's not like, "I had to have chemotherapy. It stinks. I have a headache and I'm tired." But it's actually, I guess, that feeling of human connection that I found the most hard.
Sydney Hunt:
I feel like there's a big theme in your episode of simplicity from your statement to the microscope to how easy it is to check in on people and the simplicity of your Imagine a World statement. I really feel like we need to follow that theme more. Because I feel like, myself included, I'm sometimes an over-thinker in a lot of things, and it's like, Sydney, it's not that deep, just ask, just say things.
Marcus Forst:
And people will guide you too if you ask how you're feeling. They'll talk as much or as little as they want. They can talk about like, "Oh, I'm so mad that Lewis Hamilton lost his race or something." Or-
Sydney Hunt:
Did he lose a race recently?
Marcus Forst:
I actually embarrassingly have not watched the most recent Formula One race, so I don't know.
Willie Thompson:
Oh, I don't even follow Formula One. I just know who he is of the Met stuff, like the Met Gala and whatnot.
Sydney Hunt:
I don't know either.
Willie Thompson:
Exposing ourselves.
Marcus Forst:
I'm actually flattered by this. I love, I don't know, simplicity.
Sydney Hunt:
Flattered by what? Expand on it.
Marcus Forst:
I don't know. You're saying that there's a theme of simplicity in my talk.
Sydney Hunt:
I'm glad. Good.
Willie Thompson:
Cool. So maybe we'll go into improbable stuff and then we can probably wrap. I think. Well, maybe I have one follow up question. So to this point of simplicity, it's one of these things where it reminds me of a class I'm taking right now at the GSB called Winning Writing. Shout out Rachel Conrad, who's the lecturer for that.
And she has all these rules for writing, and it's all about very simple rules. She always says, "The rules are very simple, but they're very hard to follow." I wonder for you, what are your reflections on why something that's so simple, like checking in on friends or spending time with them? What about that? Even though it's so simple is so hard?
Marcus Forst:
I think it's just hard. I don't think things being simple makes them easy, I guess. If I'm going to be happy during the day, I should probably wake up, eat breakfast, work out, shower, go to work, have my hair not look horrible.
Willie Thompson:
It looks great, by the way.
Marcus Forst:
Thank you. Thank you. But I don't always pull that off. Look, it's tiring for me too to try and check in on people and I also forget it. So I think it's just hard, but I think it's worth trying.
Willie Thompson:
And what about it do you think is-
Marcus Forst:
What about it is hard?
Willie Thompson:
Yeah.
Marcus Forst:
I think the thing that's hard about trying to actually check in on somebody is that you have to become okay with them responding. If you're going to say, "How are you feeling today?" And then they respond and they start talking, you now have to give attention to that. And attention takes energy and time, and you almost have to be careful with how much you use.
It's one of the things I think that's changed about me since I came to Stanford is when I first came here, I literally had coffee with every single Knight-Hennessy scholar of the first cohort, except for one, Zoey.
Sydney Hunt:
Wow.
Willie Thompson:
Hahaha.
Marcus Forst:
I had all of the scholars in my cohort. I tried to know, and then the new cohort came the 2020 years, and I wanted to meet all of them. And then my brain somewhere in that year just exploded. I really had to just shrink down because I want to actually be able to know what's going on with people and support them and feel close with them, and physically can't do it with an infinite number of people.
So, I think I respect how difficult it is, but I think it's really worth doing. And I think it's really meaningful, and we all can understand it from the pandemic. It's really jarring when suddenly you don't have it. And that just has really stayed with me.
Sydney Hunt:
Beautiful statements. I feel like all your words are poetry.
Marcus Forst:
Oh, thanks.
Sydney Hunt:
I love it. I guess to transition into some of our closing questions, as people or may not know, when you apply to Knight-Hennessy, you have to answer and list eight improbable facts about yourself as part of the application. And these are things that are true about you, but people may not necessarily know.
And so Marcus, I was wondering if you would want to share a few, I'm looking at your scholar portal now. There's some really cool ones on here. And if you have, after that, also advice for scholars or people who are interested in applying to Knight-Hennessy.
Marcus Forst:
Sure. I'm curious which ones you find cool.
Sydney Hunt:
All of them.
Willie Thompson:
We'll do the post review after you answer.
Marcus Forst:
That's so funny. I think we've talked about Avondale actually quite a bit. So I'll talk a little bit about one of them, which is that I helped teach the physics courses in my high school my senior year, because my high school teacher slipped. They hadn't salted the parking lot, and he slipped on ice and got just a horrendous concussion. He was out for months.
Willie Thompson:
Whoa.
Sydney Hunt:
Dang.
Marcus Forst:
And they couldn't find a sub in our area who could teach physics, and so they had our math sub who's amazing. But then I happened to have study hall during at least two, if not three of the extra classes, and so I just went and I didn't really lecture, but I was like the TA. I would just sit there and then if they needed help, I would help them.
Sydney Hunt:
That's so kind.
Marcus Forst:
It was pretty cool. Also good, because I feel like the previous year when I took physics, I wasn't that good.
Willie Thompson:
It's different when you got to teach it.
Marcus Forst:
Well, no, I think it just made me better.
Willie Thompson:
For sure. Any other improbable facts you find cool, Sydney?
Sydney Hunt:
Yeah. Well, that one I really liked. I thought it was really cool because it was very impressive when you're a teenager teaching people something.
Marcus Forst:
Honestly, the perfect time to teach is right after you learned it.
Sydney Hunt:
That's true.
Marcus Forst:
Because I'd be like, they'd be like-
Willie Thompson:
That's right.
Marcus Forst:
... "Why is the force going to the center when you're going in a circle?" And I took this, I was like, "Hmm, how do I explain this?" I was like, ah. And I found this roll of tape and I put a marble on the inside and I went like this, and I was like, "See, it can only go in a circle being pushed towards the center being pushed by the tape."
Sydney Hunt:
Wow.
Marcus Forst:
And so I was like-
Willie Thompson:
Yo, that's crazy.
Marcus Forst:
Right? So anyway, it was because when I was one year prior, I was like, "Why is it going towards the center? This doesn't make any sense." So anyway, I think it's actually the perfect time to have people teach.
Willie Thompson:
I need you to teach me physics.
Sydney Hunt:
Honestly, honestly.
Marcus Forst:
No, I'd be happy to.
Sydney Hunt:
Teach some of my courses. I feel like we-
Willie Thompson:
So, you want to build a microscope.
Sydney Hunt:
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we need a ninth fact that you have an incredible memory, these attention to detail of all these show and tells of first this tape marble thing to your mom's presentation, to all these other things. I'm very impressed.
Willie Thompson:
Memory calls is really good.
Sydney Hunt:
Really good. One thing I really liked is I went to Duke, because I'm a huge basketball fan. And one of your fun facts as manager for the Temple men's basketball team-
Willie Thompson:
It's crazy.
Sydney Hunt:
... "I have rebounded," which means you catch the ball when you pass it back, "for NBA players during their workouts." And your favorite is Wayne Ellington.
Marcus Forst:
Yeah, Wayne Ellington is super nice, just great guy.
Willie Thompson:
So this gets at a question I have actually about NBA players because I love Wayne Ellington. And then is there anyone else that you were like, "Oh, wow, I was really cool being this person's rebounder."?
Marcus Forst:
I think Wayne Ellington is the one.
Willie Thompson:
He's the one? Okay. So, I've heard that sometimes NBA players have a persona. They present themselves as affable, very nice publicly, but they're kind of like jerks. Did you experience any of that? I'm not ask you name names, you know what I'm saying, but I'm just curious about that as an experience.
Marcus Forst:
I didn't. I think I was pretty lucky. I don't want to say anything bad about anybody.
Willie Thompson:
I was just curious. I wasn't asking for an actual name. I was just saying how you seen it happen. I just feel like, anyway, not my business,
Marcus Forst:
I'll say, I think most people acted as I expected them to act.
Sydney Hunt:
So now we want our final question. Clean, simple advice for anyone who is interested in applying to Knight-Hennessy, or it could be something that you wish you would've known that you did not know when you were applying/once you got into the program.
Marcus Forst:
I mean, my advice is basically that you want to be as yourself as possible in this application. So, Knight-Hennessy does a very good job of asking for exactly what they want, so they ask very specific questions because they want to hear the answers to those questions. So you don't have to think a lot about what do they actually mean by this question.
You want to really answer the question, and then you want to answer it as you, so you don't want... It doesn't have to be super crazy, fancy or anything. And so the way I did this was, I am not a very good writer, but I basically just walked around the streets of Philly with a phone and just talked into the phone, just like talking stories into the phone. And I come home and I transcribe them and try and figure out which stories just felt like basically the best. It's something where you want to have your family and friends I guess, read it and be like, "Oh yeah, that's Marcus."
And then I guess the other piece of advice is that there's not really one Knight-Hennessy Scholar template. Some people are really focused on one thing. Some people are really good at a bunch of different things. You can really afford to, I guess, take risks and try and go for home runs instead of trying to avoid strikeouts and just go for it. Just be yourself. Just write something that feels like you and makes you happy.
Back in the day, when I applied all those years ago, the application deadline was super early. First of all, I didn't think there was a chance I would get into Knight-Hennessy because I looked at the resumes of all the people who got in the first year. I was just like, yeah, no. But I was like, "Ah, why not? It'll be fun."
And I thought it could be an early draft for all the other essays I would have to write for fellowships and stuff, and grad school. And so my Knight-Hennessy application, which by the way was the only one I won, was my draft for all the other ones. And so I actually think, I kind of like...
Sydney Hunt:
Maybe that speaks to the authenticity you were talking about.
Marcus Forst:
Exactly. So, I think try and be as much you as possible and figure out, I guess, which stories best show that.
Willie Thompson:
Marcus, it's been a pleasure to have had the Nexus person of Knight-Hennessy on the pod. But seriously, really appreciate you sharing so openly, so simply and elegantly, as Sydney mentioned, and so candidly, just about your life experiences and just how you see the world. So, we are extremely fortunate to have you as part of this community, and we can't wait to see what you do with your life. Thanks so much.
Sydney Hunt:
We appreciate you. Thank you.
Marcus Forst:
Thank you guys for having me.
Sydney Hunt:
Of course.
Willie Thompson:
Awesome, all right.
Sydney Hunt:
Our pleasure.
Willie Thompson:
Until next time.
Sydney Hunt:
Bye.
Marcus Forst:
Peace.
Sydney Hunt:
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Imagine a World where we hear from inspiring members of the KHS community who are making significant contributions in their respective fields, challenging the status quo, and pushing the boundaries of what is possible as they imagine the world they want to see.
Willie Thompson:
This podcast is sponsored by Knight-Hennessy Scholars at Stanford University, a multidisciplinary, multicultural graduate fellowship program providing scholars with financial support to pursue graduate studies at Stanford while helping equip them to be visionary, courageous, and collaborative leaders who address complex challenges facing the world. Follow us on social media @KnightHennessy, and visit our website at kh.stanford.edu to learn more about the program and our community.
