Humbitious: The many lives of Willie Thompson

In this episode of Imagine A World, a podcast by Knight-Hennessy Scholars, Sydney Hunt (2023 cohort) interviews Willie Thompson (2022 cohort), one of the original creators of Imagine a World, whose presence will be deeply missed within the Knight-Hennessy Scholars community.

Willie Thompson imagines a world where there is no toxicity in the workplace. The episode starts off with a game where Willie tries to guess what certain objects are (that are related to the podcast and Denning House) without looking. Willie shares about growing up in the Deep South, attending Morehouse College, deciding to apply for Fulbright and Schwarzman, and wanting to start a school and transform what the workplace looks and feels like. Throughout the episode, he reflects on what it means to be in community with others and how that has looked for him from where he grew up to his time as a husband and father at Stanford as part of the Knight-Hennessy Scholars community.

Don't miss: A surprise visit by another person who played a pivotal role in the creation of the Imagine a World podcast: Taylor Goss (2021 cohort).

Resources

• Interview with David Gelles at Stanford Graduate School of Business
• Interview with Eyal Press, author of Dirty Work: Essential Jobs and the Hidden Toll of Inequality in America
• Interview with Jeff Pfeffer, Stanford Graduate School of Business professor and author of Dying for a Paycheck
• Rising Team, the company Willie worked at based on his interest in removing workplace toxicity
• How Imagine A World began

View the full transcript

Guest

Willie J. Thompson, from Griffin, Georgia, is pursuing a master's degree in business administration at Stanford Graduate School of Business and a master's degree in policy, organization, and leadership studies at Stanford Graduate School of Education. He graduated summa cum laude from Morehouse College with a bachelor’s degree in economics and a minor in Chinese Studies. Willie intends to create and contribute to organizations using the arts as a conduit for community building and intercultural education. 

Previously, he was a consultant and inaugural Hybrid Community Engagement Manager for The Bridgespan Group, where he focused on philanthropic prizes, non-profit initiatives to reduce gun violence and increase funding for Black and Latinx entrepreneurs, and firm-wide community development. He is a Schwarzman Scholar, an alum of Fulbright Taiwan’s English Teaching Assistant (ETA) program, where he was awarded for his contributions to the community as ETA of the year, and co-founder of Common Room Conversations — a podcast exploring the lives of individuals in their pursuit of consequence, however they choose to define it.

Imagine A World team

Imagine A World's theme music was composed and recorded by Taylor Goss (2021 cohort). The podcast was originally conceived and led by Briana Mullen (2020 cohort), Taylor Goss, and Willie Thompson (2022 cohort), along with Daniel Gajardo (2020 cohort) and Jordan Conger (2020 cohort).

Knight-Hennessy scholars represent a vast array of cultures, perspectives, and experiences. While we as an organization are committed to elevating their voices, the views expressed are those of the scholars, and not necessarily those of KHS.

Full transcript

Note: Transcripts are generated by machine and lightly edited by humans. They may contain errors.

Willie Thompson:

Because whenever you see the profiles of scholars, you see their accomplishments, you see their achievements, you see the prestige, and that was always very haunting to me. I never saw myself as part of those communities because I didn't see myself in them, right? They weren't people who, I don't know, like to fish or people who struggled with confidence or being humbitious, as I've heard recently.

I'm Willie J. Thompson. I'm a member of the 2022 cohort and a third year master's student between the Graduate Schools of Business and Education. I imagine a world where workplace toxicity ceases to exist.

Sydney Hunt:

Hey, listeners, thank you for tuning into another episode of Imagine A World. This is our final episode of the season, and it's a bittersweet one because we're saying goodbye to one of the original creators of this podcast, Willie Thompson.

Willie, you've been an incredible co-host, friend, and mentor, and we're so grateful for everything you've brought to the show. Congratulations on your upcoming graduation from Stanford.

Today, we'll be reflecting on Willie's journey from the transformative power of international travel to the joys and struggles of starting a young family with his wife during graduate school. We will also delve into his vision for a world free of workplace toxicity, a topic that can resonate deeply with us all. Plus, stay tuned for a surprise guest appearance from someone very special to Willie. So grab your headphones, get comfy, and join us for one last ride on Season 2 of Imagine A World.

Hi everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Imagine A World. My name is Sydney Hunt and I use she/her pronouns. I'm a second year PhD candidate in electrical engineering and a member of the 2023 Knight-Hennessy Scholars cohort.

Today is a special episode for me because it is a bittersweet, feral episode to our dear friend Willie Thompson. But before we go to Willie, I want to introduce our other co-host, Barkotel. Can you tell listeners who you are?

Barkotel Zemenu:

Hi. Barkotel Zemenu. 2024 cohort in the physics PhD program, and welcome to your semi last episode. We're so excited to have you here.

Willie Thompson:

I'm glad to be here. This is crazy being on the other side of the mic.

Sydney Hunt:

I know. How does it feel now that you're on the other side of the mic?

Willie Thompson:

It feels good.

Sydney Hunt:

Yeah?

Willie Thompson:

I think it's a sign of growth in the podcast team that I'm not the one doing an interview with myself, that there are other people who are doing it. So I count this as a sign of success.

Sydney Hunt:

Definitely. For sure. Yeah. Well, this is new situation where you're now on the other side of the mic. So we thought we would do a little bit of a warm up.

Willie Thompson:

Okay.

Sydney Hunt:

So it's early in the morning when we're recording, so-

Barkotel Zemenu:

To get you a bit excited.

Sydney Hunt:

Yeah, exactly. So since as you mentioned, you know all about the pod, you're one of the OG, I guess, founders of the podcast, we want to know how well you know the podcast and its items without any context. So Stacy, we have our marketing guru is shadowing in the room and she's going to hand you some objects. Don't look! No, don't look.

Willie Thompson:

Okay. Keep my eyes closed.

Sydney Hunt:

Related to the podcast. And we're going to have you close your eyes and try to figure out what they are. Some of them are related to Imagine a World, some of them are related to Denning. And as you complete, we want to know how well you're able to identify.

Barkotel Zemenu:

And no cheating.

Sydney Hunt:

No cheating.

Barkotel Zemenu:

Absolutely no cheating.

Sydney Hunt:

At all. Okay.

Willie Thompson:

I'll participate with the most integrity.

Barkotel Zemenu:

Raise your hand.

Sydney Hunt:

Okay. So we are going to start with the first item. Yeah. Stacy's going to walk around and hand it to you. Make sure your eyes are closed.

Willie Thompson:

I mean, I can't... Yeah.

Sydney Hunt:

Yeah. And don't open them in between things either.

Willie Thompson:

Okay. I won't open them between things.

Sydney Hunt:

Yeah. Okay. Put your right-hand open.

Willie Thompson:

Open.

Sydney Hunt:

Can you feel it?

Willie Thompson:

Yes.

Sydney Hunt:

You can describe to the listeners what you're feeling.

Willie Thompson:

All right. This is the key that opens up the closet for the podcast equipment.

Sydney Hunt:

Good job.

Willie Thompson:

Thank you. So that's the key that stays in Stacy's cabinet-

Sydney Hunt:

It does stay in Stacy's in cabinet.

Willie Thompson:

... in an envelope.

Sydney Hunt:

Yes. Great. Okay. We have five things, so you'll have a few.

Willie Thompson:

Not one for one.

Sydney Hunt:

Here's the second one. A little bit different.

Willie Thompson:

It's a banana. Banana, on the second floor of Denning that fit in the bowl upstairs-

Sydney Hunt:

Exactly.

Willie Thompson:

... next to the snacks.

Sydney Hunt:

Yes. Perfect.

Willie Thompson:

It feels a little ripe. Is it ripe? Is it ripe enough to eat?

Sydney Hunt:

Almost. Almost.

Willie Thompson:

Okay. All right.

Sydney Hunt:

Yeah.

Willie Thompson:

I'll save it for later.

Sydney Hunt:

Sorry, something we forgot to grab before we came in here.

Barkotel Zemenu:

Deal-

Sydney Hunt:

Barkotel-

Barkotel Zemenu:

[inaudible 00:04:37]

Sydney Hunt:

... you can hand this one in the meantime while Stacy is running out to grab-

Barkotel Zemenu:

Your right hand.

Willie Thompson:

Okay.

Sydney Hunt:

This one's a little bit harder. It actually has a two-parter.

Willie Thompson:

All right. This is chocolate.

Sydney Hunt:

This is chocolate-

Barkotel Zemenu:

What type of chocolate?

Sydney Hunt:

... but do you know specifically?

Willie Thompson:

It's mint chocolate, right?

Barkotel Zemenu:

Mint chocolate. What color is it?

Willie Thompson:

I think... Is the package green?

Sydney Hunt:

I don't know. You tell me.

Barkotel Zemenu:

How do you feel green?

Willie Thompson:

I have no idea. I mean, I just seen them before.

Sydney Hunt:

Okay.

Willie Thompson:

Can I smell it? Yeah, it's a mint chocolate. It's mint chocolate.

Sydney Hunt:

It's mint chocolate.

Willie Thompson:

Yep. And then this feels like a peppermint.

Sydney Hunt:

Yes.

Willie Thompson:

Okay. It's peppermint.

Sydney Hunt:

It is.

Willie Thompson:

And I think these, they're somewhere in Denning House but I don't know where.

Sydney Hunt:

They're next to the bananas actually.

Willie Thompson:

Next to bananas. Okay. Approximate to bananas. Okay.

Sydney Hunt:

Okay. So that was four objects, right, that you-

Willie Thompson:

That was four.

Sydney Hunt:

... determined.

Willie Thompson:

A four for four.

Sydney Hunt:

The last one is actually going to be an audio description. Keep your eyes closed. Keep your eyes closed. Are you ready?

Willie Thompson:

I'm ready.

Sydney Hunt:

So 3, 2, 1.

Taylor Goss:

What is the best Maxwell song and why-

Taylor Goss:

Pretty Wings.

Willie Thompson:

That's crazy. My God!

Sydney Hunt:

Yay.

Willie Thompson:

What's up, man? Good to see you.

Sydney Hunt:

Were you surprised?

Willie Thompson:

Yes, I am surprised.

Taylor Goss:

Congratulations, buddy.

Willie Thompson:

Thanks man.

Willie Thompson:

Wow, that was good. That was good.

Sydney Hunt:

Nice.

Willie Thompson:

That was well done.

Taylor Goss:

I was so happy whenever they told me the description of this surprise. So for anyone listening, I walked in in the midst of the question asking and the object handling and swapped in for Barkotel.

Sydney Hunt:

Thank you Barkotel.

Willie Thompson:

And here we are. Thank you so much.

Sydney Hunt:

Thank you for being our temporary-

Willie Thompson:

Wow. Was this the whole setup up the whole time?

Sydney Hunt:

That was the whole set the whole time.

Willie Thompson:

That's crazy.

Sydney Hunt:

Yeah.

Willie Thompson:

Well done. Well done.

Sydney Hunt:

Thank you.

Taylor Goss:

That was flawless. That was so flawless.

Sydney Hunt:

So who are you? This voice?

Taylor Goss:

Hello folks. I guess, you can't see me. My name is Taylor Goss and I was a member of the 2021 Knight-Hennessy cohort. I did a program in music science and technology at CARMA, and I did a Master's in public policy and I was the co-host with Willie Thompson of the OG Imagine A World podcast.

Willie Thompson:

Wow.

Sydney Hunt:

That's right.

Willie Thompson:

Crazy.

Sydney Hunt:

I know. So this is a big surprise because Taylor-

Willie Thompson:

This is a big surprise-

Sydney Hunt:

... came all the way up from LA to interview Willie today. Taylor graduated last year, and so we've been doing the pod without him this year. We missed him. I missed him for sure. And so I'm very happy-

Taylor Goss:

I missed you.

Sydney Hunt:

... to see you in person. And this was, yeah, a very well-planned surprise. Thank you Stacy, Barkotel, Taylor for all the many texting.

Willie Thompson:

Wow.

Sydney Hunt:

I was nervous. Willie, you saw me texting a lot right now that you were going to think something was up because I was typing on you.

Willie Thompson:

Yeah. I just thought you were taking notes or whatever, right?

Sydney Hunt:

Oh yeah, I was. I was.

Willie Thompson:

This is the second time you almost got a thug tear out of me. You see there's a little moisture out-

Sydney Hunt:

Oh my gosh.

Willie Thompson:

... here on the side of my eye. Wow, that's crazy.

Sydney Hunt:

That's good. That's good. That's good. Yeah.

Taylor Goss:

Tears and hugs. That's what thugs stand for.

Sydney Hunt:

There we go. There we go. Okay, so Willie, now we're here. Taylor's here, feels back like deja vu a year ago.

Willie Thompson:

It is.

Sydney Hunt:

Before we talk about the world you imagine, let's talk about the world you were born into and have experienced thus far. Where are you from and what was your journey here?

Willie Thompson:

Okay, so I'm going to try to answer this question as concisely as possible.

Sydney Hunt:

Why? We have we have time.

Taylor Goss:

Good luck.

Sydney Hunt:

Yeah.

Willie Thompson:

Yeah, seriously. So we can get in this a little later. Concision is something I'm working on just in my day to day.

Sydney Hunt:

Sure.

Willie Thompson:

But since this is my episode, I'll take the space to tell the story.

Sydney Hunt:

Nice.

Willie Thompson:

So I was born in Selma, Alabama. I grew up about an hour south of Atlanta in a small town called Griffin, Georgia. It's about 24,000 people, just very quaint southern town. And I was born to my mom, Melinda Thompson, and my dad, Willie Page.

Like I said, most of my family's from Alabama, so I spent a lot of my time in the deep south, most of it traveling back and forth between my hometown in Birmingham where my grandparents are. A lot of my story can't be told without giving more context about who I come from.

And so my great-grandparents, Mary Thompson and Willie Thompson, were sharecroppers in a very rural area called Uniontown in Alabama. It's less than 10,000 people. It's kind of place where you had a Piggly Wiggly gas station and a convenience store or a pharmacy, and that was it.

And my dad raised pigs, goats, chickens. Lived in the trailer on the plot land with his mom. And so a very super rural upbringing. And so that's where my great-grandparents are from.

And then my grandma, Sally Flowers, she went to school up until eighth grade, learned to become basically a housemaid in New York. And she basically... A lot of people say, "Oh, describe your grandmother." She's like Viola Davis in The Help. The level of racism is debatable in terms of her experience. I haven't talked her a lot about that. But being a black woman in the deep south and do that kind of work, I imagine she faced a lot of that. And she ended up getting a job with an... I think, Doc is an endocrinologist in Alabama to clean his house. He has a lake house and he has another house somewhere.

And so she would clean his house and then he connected her with another family in Birmingham. I call her Miss Beth. And so that family has her clean their home too. So that's what she did for... She still does it, right. So she still goes around.

My granddad, John Flowers, was a chauffeur, Uber before Uber, for some folks in Birmingham. And then my mom is a public school educator, so she spent over 30 years in public school systems trying to help kids learn. And she's my fifth grade math teacher.

So these are all the people who's influenced and had some outsized role in my life. And my mom got remarried when I was 13. And to my Pops, Ronnie Owens Sr. I have a brother, Ronnie Owens Jr. at the same age.

And so yeah, that was my upbringing, sort of being around those folks, growing up in very rural areas and being a part of an upbringing that was situated on being humble, being connected to people regardless of their backgrounds. So a lot of the things that I view about myself and I view about the way I look at the world come from having people who worked in some of the least glamorous types of roles.

And so I do count it a privilege. I get a chance to... I think I was the first person to go to college and then just choose to do something and not have to be forced to do something. I can talk about that later.

But anyway, so I grew up in Griffin, public schools kid, and I'll pause there because there's a lot I can get into. But graduated high school from Griffin at Spalding High School. Went to Morehouse College, the Morehouse College. Major in economics, minor in Chinese studies.

Graduated from there, did a year in Taiwan as a English teaching assistant with the Fulbright Program. Worked at The Bridgespan Group, then a nonprofit consulting firm for a year. I left there early to do Schwarzman Scholars in Beijing.

And then I came back to Bridgespan, worked there for three years, continued to work there for three more years, and then came out here to Stanford. So I'll put a pin in that for now, but that's sort of the windy story. A bit of a windy story. Yeah.

Taylor Goss:

Well, that was great. Thanks for wrapping it up there, Willie. That kind of sums it up. Is it? Enjoy the rest of your day.

Willie Thompson:

That's it.

Taylor Goss:

Wow. There's so much to dive in there. I think the first thing that pops into my mind, also, being from a rural area, I'm curious, what sorts of things interested you in your community? I know your mom was in public school. Was education something that you sort of leaned toward because of your mom?

Willie Thompson:

Yeah, for sure. So I'll talk about things in the communities. Some of it, it's like academics. Some of it, it's just recreational.

Taylor Goss:

Great. Okay.

Willie Thompson:

So growing in the deep south, riding horses, bareback was a thing that my dad would do. I was very afraid to ride horses for good reason actually. Fishing was a big thing. That was it too. Me and my granddad used to fish all the time. There was a day I caught 50 fish, he caught 35.

Taylor Goss:

Wow.

Sydney Hunt:

Wow.

Willie Thompson:

My grandma caught 15 or something. We caught a hundred fish in one day.

Taylor Goss:

Wow. That's crazy!

Willie Thompson:

And he would tell that story all the time to people. Yeah, he taught. And it's really cool because my grandma taught my granddad how to fish. So it's like this way to come home with a woman who's important in my life, teaching a man that's important in my life this thing that became a hobby and recreation. So there's all that stuff. Playing in dirt, just... I did kind of stuff.

I would say, yeah, I was definitely interested in education. Mostly because I just saw my mom doing what she did. She was an educator who... She was no-nonsense. So a lot of the people who grew up in my hometown would know, "Oh, Ms. Thompson, she don't play." That was the refrain.

And it was because she had high standards for her students. And even though she was familiar with the backgrounds they came from, she always made sure that she cared about them. And she went the extra mile to do that. So not only was she caring for them in class, she was going to visit their homes and talk to their parents. She definitely was compensated for that. So I would just be tagging along with her for all this and seeing just the role she had in so many people's lives and sort of how she lived that fully. I was like, "Man, how could I not want to be a teacher? How do I not want to be in a school?"

And I think it's very easy for me to have a rosy point of view on that because I was sort of seeing her in the moment. I never saw her when she went to bed or what she was doing whenever she put me to bed. And the struggles she might've been going through.

This podcast actually prompted me to probably talk to her more about some of that stuff, because I remember telling her when I went to college, I said, "Yeah, I'm going to college. I'm going to be a teacher." And she's like, "Are you sure?"

And she never told me outright no. I think she was very adamant about doing something that I've tried to emulate a lot in my life, is just set really clear expectations for what that job entails. And so the whole time, I'm pretty sure she was telling me, "This job is hard, this career is hard."

I remember, for example, coming home during the pandemic like a lot of folks were, and I had just gotten... I think I just got a pay raise for my job at Bridgespan. So I was an entry-level consultant, but I was making $75,000 a year.

And my mom was like, "Do you know how long it took me to make $75,000?" And I was like, "I don't know. Please regale me, tell the story." And she was like, "I just started making that." I was like, "Excuse me."

Taylor Goss:

Wow.

Willie Thompson:

And it just sort of goes to show even some of the economic constraints in that career. And she got asked to be a principal a couple of... or an assistant principal, and she just really wanted to be close to the kids. So yeah, she was that educator.

And to the point about being in Taiwan, I was in an environment where I was co-teaching. They didn't just put me in front of a classroom of students and say, "Go teach them." We had workshops every week. I was getting paid well enough.

As Dr. Vokey, who's the head of the program would say, "We give you enough so that you don't have to make trade-offs for your wellbeing and your lifestyle." And so I got a chance to see that in Taiwan. I was like, "Oh yeah, this is nice." And I was like, "Maybe not."

And so I thought more about, "If I had this interest in education, what would it look like maybe the start of school?" So instead of being like, "Would I be an educator?" I was like, "Well, what if I started a school that would address some of the things that I really care about?" And so I started thinking about that in college and kept thinking about it a bit after when I was in Taiwan and in China.

Sydney Hunt:

Yeah. The story you said very much resonated with me because my mom's also public school teacher and I told her I wanted to be a teacher, and she also reacted saying, "Okay, well, let's think about alternatives potentially."

Willie Thompson:

Yeah.

Sydney Hunt:

Because like you said, it's really hard. And I think during Covid I got a glimpse into what you were saying of what she feels and what she looks like when she's going to bed, and immense amount of self-imposed pressure that, of course, helps a lot of students, but can be very draining on the individual.

I was curious where you got that entrepreneur mindset of wanting to start a school. It seems like all the people that you've described in your family and how they support you have been on a very one-on-one, person-to-person basis. Where did that next level jump come from, I guess?

Willie Thompson:

For sure. And it's really interesting you mentioned this entrepreneurial mindset because I think being in Silicon Valley and being at Stanford, if you ask people what an entrepreneur looks like, I think they have a very stark image in their head.

And when I think about entrepreneur, I actually think about people like my grandma. She basically was running a business and there was no cap table or whatever, but she was-

Taylor Goss:

Never owned a Patagonia vest.

Willie Thompson:

She didn't own a Patagonia vest.

Sydney Hunt:

Yeah.

Willie Thompson:

Although we did just get her a jacket from Costco.

Taylor Goss:

That's better.

Sydney Hunt:

There you go.

Willie Thompson:

So maybe that's the new partnership.

Taylor Goss:

That's better.

Willie Thompson:

And I just want to shout out a friend of mine from business school, Cassandra, who did a whole thesis about this with her joint masters in public policy at the MBA at the business school where she did a whole paper about women of color and how they are entrepreneurial, even including our nanny, Gloria, she's entrepreneur. She's been watching kids for 20 years.

So anyway, so I think that's been an interesting thing to grapple with being here and having these images of what counts as entrepreneur, what doesn't, and how that's structured for wealth creation versus not. I would-

Willie Thompson:

... What doesn't and how that's structured for wealth creation versus not. I would say it started my freshman year of college, I was in Graves Hall. People who go to Morehouse know Graves Hall. G-Phi. Second floor, room 222. And I had this dream of people from all different countries and worlds playing music from each other's countries. I was like, "That sound's like a cool idea." That idea stuck with me for a long time and I just started thinking about that and wondering, as someone who is a percussionist, I play drums, drum line, drum set, marimba, xylophone, glockenspiel, all that stuff. Triangle. Timpani is hard, but I try. I found it to be a unifying force, the arts and music.

And so, to me, I started thinking about, what if I started a school where what you studied was the arts, but they were rooted in a particular location or a locale. The initial idea was a boarding school, which we can talk about how I don't want to do that anymore, but the idea, in its completion, with a cage, was that, imagine you're in sixth grade, you go sixth to 12th grade and each year you would be on a different continent. And so, you'd be in North America, considering the state of political affairs right now, maybe you're in Canada, but you're somewhere in North America. And then the art form and your instruction are all based on that, right? If you think about me, as a percussionist, I would focus on instruments or pieces that are from North American artists, right?

My history classes would be about North American stuff. Only about Canadian history, Mexican history, US history. Literature class is also influenced by that. And then, imagine you at sixth grade, seventh grade, you go to South America, you do that. Eighth grade, you go to Africa and do that. Ninth grade, you go to Europe, 10th grade... Just do that, right? Over and over again. Hits this continent. And then, by the time you hit your senior year, you can choose to go to one of the campuses, be a mentor or whatever, and finish up school.

And the idea was that, in the summers, you would tour. You would take these students who are from these different cultures, these different backgrounds, who spent time together being a community, and you give them an opportunity to show the world what it's like to be in a space where you can actually build community and navigate difference and live, not necessarily in harmony or peace, but you learn to live with each other. You learn to live well, right?

Anyway, that's basically where the entrepreneurial idea came from. That's where I ended the idea by the time I came to Stanford. But I had a lot of conversations, interviewed a lot of people over the course of eight to nine years about what that would look like, and the pros and cons, and just decided that... And Stanford has a long tradition of people who've gone through that, with the African Leadership Academy, with Fred and Chris. I decided against it, but it was something that animated me for a long period of time.

Taylor Goss:

What you're describing is so incredibly up my alley, Willie, of the idea of music being a uniting force and an international cross-cultural force. That's such a beautiful idea. And I definitely want to talk more about music before this podcast is out. But you speaking about your time at Morehouse and speaking about your conception of building community or your priority of building community. Anyone that meets you within Knight-Hennessy, I think, has been struck by your community mindedness and your kindness and your welcoming energy that you bring with you wherever you go. When you were at Morehouse, how did that change your conception of community based on the people that you met there?

Willie Thompson:

Yeah. For sure. I can talk about this for days and I'll give a little bit of context about how I got to Morehouse because I think there's something in there, I think, that informs why I did that. When I was a junior senior year in high school, you all know what that was like to feel the pressure of applying to college, running the gamut, taking SAT-ACT, all that stuff. I had this crazy idea, when I was going to my senior year at Spalding, to apply to Harvard. I was like, "You know what? I'm just going to do it."

I remember talking to an admissions officer, my guidance counselor, scheduled a call with someone from the admissions office. They're like, "Oh, yeah. We really want to support Willie in applying to Harvard." And I remember, at some point, one of my best friends, Jasmine Truitt, she came up to me during our free period senior year, and said, "Hey, Ms. Aarons was talking about you today." And I was like, "Okay, cool. She probably is talking about the letter of recommendation I'm about to ask for her for Harvard." Yada, yada.

She's like, "Oh, no. Basically it's gotten out that you're applying to Harvard and she said that you couldn't get into Harvard. She was openly talking to my classes about that, like, "Oh, he hasn't taken my class. He hasn't taken so-and-so's class." And I was like, "Oh, that's really confusing." I was really hurt by that. And initially I told my mom, who is very protective, and like I said, she don't play, and she was like, "I'm going to talk to her." And I was like, "Wait, wait, wait." I was like, "Let's not blow up the spot." She said it like, "I'm not going to ask her for a letter of recommendation. I'm going to just keep it moving."

And then she ended up talking about me again on a separate occasion that Jasmine told me, because it was about my placement class. I graduated third from my high school class. And again, there was a whole question about who would be val and sal or whatever. And then she's like, "Oh, yeah. You could be val because..." Anyway, some argument. And the argument was I hadn't taken enough AP classes. I hadn't subscribed to what, quote unquote, "it takes" to get into a good school, right? My school offered-

Taylor Goss:

Or at least what he saw as the path.

Willie Thompson:

Or most people did, I think, right?

Taylor Goss:

Or most people did, okay.

Willie Thompson:

Most people think if your school offers 12 AP classes and you're trying to get into, I don't know, Duke, LSU, Harvard, wherever, you should take all the AP classes, show that you're college ready. I was burnt out for better... I didn't have the words to describe that, but I was burnt out. I remember every Sunday, we would come home after church, we'd eat dinner. My family would be in the living room watching the football game, but I'd be in my room studying.

And I was like, I don't know. I feel like I had one more year with my family as it was and I wanted to take less AP. I actually wanted to make a conscious decision to not subscribe to that viewpoint of getting into a good school, so I chose to take less AP classes. I didn't take AP Chemistry, I didn't take AP British Lit. I didn't take AP Government, whatever, because I wanted more time with my family. And no one seemed to really move by that. I remember one of my English teachers was feeling like I was squandering my academic potential by not doing all this stuff. And anyway, that was the context. And so, I was so hurt, I didn't tell anybody where I went to college. No one knew. I don't know if you guys had this at your high schools, where you wore with a shirt, whatever-

Sydney Hunt:

Yeah, decision day.

Willie Thompson:

Decision day or whatever, right? We had decision day and, in my response to what I had been feeling and being a part of what I thought was a community, I got a white Haynes T-shirt from Walmart, one of the five packs. And then I took a Sharpie and then I wrote like, "Where's Willie going to college? Question mark."

Sydney Hunt:

Oh my gosh.

Willie Thompson:

And then I wrote 30 different schools all over the shirt in Sharpie and that's what I wore, which is crazy to think...

Taylor Goss:

That's amazing.

Willie Thompson:

I wore that and people were like, "Oh, where's he going to college?" Only maybe Jasmine, a couple people who went to church with me knew, by the time I graduated, just because they announced it at my church and stuff for all the people who are graduating. But yeah, I didn't tell anybody where I was going to college. And because of that teacher who said that I couldn't get into the Harvard, I was deferred. They thought about it. Probably they heard. They said, "We'll think about it." And that got denied, which felt like a gut punch. I was so determined by the time I got into Morehouse to prove her wrong, that I could do well, that I could succeed, that I was just like, "You know what? I'm going to do it. I'm going to graduate top of my class. I'm going to just go for it."

Taylor Goss:

There's actually a great Instagram post that you have where you're standing in front of a sign at Harvard and you're like, "I made it here yesterday."

Willie Thompson:

It's a funny story.

Taylor Goss:

I saw that.

Willie Thompson:

There's a coach in my school who reposted it and went on a whole tirade on Facebook about it. And my mom was like, "Please take it down."

Sydney Hunt:

Oh, my gosh.

Willie Thompson:

But he was standing up for me. It was one of those full circle moments where... Anyway, so getting into Morehouse.

Taylor Goss:

Yeah. Did that remain your motivation? I can't imagine-

Willie Thompson:

Yeah, my best friend, Todd, who I was telling Stacy about before the podcast happened, I came to Morehouse being like, "I'm on a mission. All A's. That's what I want. That's it. I'm graduating top of the class." I went and got into the honors program. I was like, "I'm going to do the honors program too. I'm going all in on academics." And then, you get to Morehouse, I feel like it was a world opening moment for me because there were guys who look like me, to the point of the community. It was the first time I'd been in a space where I did not think about my blackness. Everything I do is view the prism of who I am. I'm just Willie.

Then you see all these guys who look like me, who are doing things I've never heard of. There was this guy, Winzell Steele, Jr, never forget him, he was the president of the business association who was also a part of the hall that I was in. My hall is really known to be the hall on campus, academically and everything else. Kid had a Google hat on. I'm like, "Oh, like a Google hat. That's crazy." And he's like, "Yeah, I worked at Google." I said, "You worked at Google?"

Sydney Hunt:

In high school?

Willie Thompson:

No, no. In college.

Sydney Hunt:

Oh, in college.

Willie Thompson:

This is in college. This is at Morehouse. My freshman year, he's a senior. I'm like, "What?"

Sydney Hunt:

Oh, he's a senior.

Willie Thompson:

Yeah. I was like, "You worked at Google?" Other people, like Miles, from my Chinese studies program, this man was speaking fluent Mandarin to someone. I was like, "I've never seen someone who's like me do that." And so, it's a place full of imagination. And it's built on this idea that we're a community, right? Mission of Morehouse College "to educate, discipline men to lead lives of service." You're steeped in that, right? There's a whole new student orientation thing that happens. There's a parent parting ceremony. There's so much expectation of you at Morehouse that you feel no choice but to make a difference in the world.

Now, in terms of community, I struggle with that a little bit. Starting at Morehouse, because I was so focused on academics, I remember my best friend, Ty, we stay on the same floor of Graves Hall, we didn't start off with best friends. We were both in Chinese studies. And I remember we'd take quizzes every week in Chinese and then I'd be like, "What'd you get? Okay, all right, I got 100, I got 100." And it was funny because Ty was like, "Okay, cool, whatever." He just wasn't-

Taylor Goss:

He had a good attitude about it.

Willie Thompson:

Yeah, he had a really good attitude about it, right? But during this whole time, I'm spending time with a bunch of guys, we're debating, until 3:00 or 4:00 A.M, theology, history, sociology, all these things, our lived experiences, and I would say, a group of people that was really core to our experience in Morehouse were a handful of dudes. Ty was definitely one of them. He's my best friend, godfather to my kids, best man at my wedding. Gabriel Adams, Ari Fleming, Jeff Golden, Marcus McCarty, Alex Kennedy. These are some of the guys in my class who, every Wednesday, we would go to the original Chick-Fil in Hapeville. They're open 24/6, because they're not open on Sundays.

And then you could go every Wednesday and get a drink and the fries and then you get the sandwich free. And so, we would just pull up at 8:00-

Taylor Goss:

Let it be known to our listeners, there's a deal to be made.

Sydney Hunt:

Yes.

Willie Thompson:

Let it be known, there's a deal to be made. I don't know if it still happens now, but it did when I was in college. And so, every Wednesday we'd all pile up in a car. And initially, it was just us with one of our RAs, Denarius Frazier, another example of just black brilliance. This black guy, chemistry major, was doing research at Princeton. One of the most insightful people I ever knew. He took us and that became our own tradition, where we would just go every Wednesday if there's Chick-fil-A and just debate, talk stuff.

I'd always bring my homework. They were always joking about this. "Man, leave your books at home, man. Leave your book bag in the car." I'm like, "No, man. I got to study." But then I do think, because of my experience in that community, it softened me up a lot, right? When I went to China after my freshman year, me and Todd were on that trip together, and I remember... I think I remember writing about... Todd was my essay to the business school. To the business school, the essay is what matters most to you and why? And I talked about-

Taylor Goss:

At Stanford, you're saying.

Willie Thompson:

Yeah. Stanford Business School, at the Graduate School of Business. I wrote about Todd because he showed me, in our friendship, how nourishing it can be to be in a healthy friendship and relationship with someone, where we're both these two black boys from the deep south. He's from Jackson, Mississippi. And we were in China laughing at how the slippers were too small for our feet and our country feet or whatever.

Sydney Hunt:

Oh, my gosh.

Willie Thompson:

It was just one of those things where he was one of the first people who helped me get through that phase of hurt from being in high school, where I didn't feel like I had community, people were conspiring against me to not get into a place like Harvard. And he was a person who held me accountable to a lot of things, that he would say, "Willie, why do you feel the need to be so competitive?" All this other stuff. I think, for me, being in that community was quite healing and delivering for me because I was surrounded by a bunch of excellence and a bunch of people who had different perspectives about how the world could or should work. I was just spending a ton of time in there. And so, that was really my training grounds for everything I've done since then.

Sydney Hunt:

I find it so fascinating to learn all these different versions of you because we only met two years ago, but the Willie that I have come to know, I think, is the exact opposite of what you're describing. It's hard for me to imagine you as being the student in class asking each other what grade you got or being super competitive because I think when you enter a room here, in Denning or anything else, I feel a sense of just relaxation and peace and calm and someone who is here to enjoy life and be present, not someone who's always trying to get to the next thing that maybe society values or is ingrained in the bubble of Stanford and Silicon Valley. And so, I wanted to know how maybe your travel or just time in between graduating undergrad and Stanford affected this newer version of Willie.

Willie Thompson:

For sure. Before I get into the travels, I would say I have to contextualize it. I got an offer from Bridgespan my senior year of college. I said, "Hey, guys. Thank you. Gainful employment. It's great. Can I do this Fulbright thing if I get it?" They said, "Yes, you can defer." And so I did Taiwan. And then I asked for a leave of absence after I came back from Taiwan to go to do Schwarzman. And I think, before I did either of these programs, Fulbright or Schwarzman, I actually have to go back to 2014, when I did the critical language scholarship, and there was someone in my program, Christian, who basically... He was doing a Fulbright that year, so that's the first time I heard about doing an ETA in Taiwan. And I was like, "Oh, cool. Yeah, I think I want to do that."

And then he also told me, "Hey, you should look out for this thing called Schwarzman." That was already on my radar two years before they even had the inaugural class. I believe I mentioned earlier, I was burnt out senior year of college. I just wanted a break. I just wanted time to breathe and rewire the way I work because I realized it just wasn't sustainable for me to be so hardcore. And there's a time and season for me to be very industrious to that degree. But I was exiting that season.

And so, yes, I was in Taiwan and, to Kayla Chen, I always tell her, she was the person who helped me see myself in these processes and in these applications because whenever you see the profiles of scholars, you see their accomplishments, you see their achievements, you see the prestige. And that was always very haunting to me. I never saw myself as part of those communities. I didn't see myself in them. There weren't people who, I don't know, like to fish or people who struggled with confidence or being humbitious, as I've heard recently.

Taylor Goss:

Did you say humbitious?

Willie Thompson:

Yeah. Humbitious is the word. Humble and ambitious is what I... From a school leader I talked to recently. Yeah, I just struggled with those things and the narratives around these kind of programs, they're like, "Oh, someone like me doesn't really belong, even if I have the credentials." And so, yeah, my friend Kayla Chen, she got Schwarzman. She was telling me about it on a trip that we were on in Taiwan. I was like, "Oh, I have a relationship with you. I have a friendship with you. You are someone who cares deeply about international law. You care about the plight of people in the world, but you also can make jokes about boba and we can just hang out and not talk about those things."

Because of that, I felt encouraged to apply to Schwarzman and I even talked to someone at Morehouse who tried to encourage me to apply to these things, and I told them no, basically, because I didn't see myself in it. And that led to a whole different orientation to these programs and fellowships. I just saw it as an opportunity for me to clarify what I want out of life. And to me, it always has been about being a part of a community and so did Schwarzman.

And at Schwarzman, I met a guy named Seth Kolker. We were in the elevator together, during our interview for Schwarzman, and I remember being like, "Oh, that's cool, dude." We ended up doing Schwarzman together. And I was in Korea with him when he found out he got Knight-Hennessy. Two points make a line. Seth and Kayla, both are people who I'm really close friends with, and I couldn't tell you what they do for their careers, I couldn't tell you the job that Seth's had the past three years. I know it's been something about tutoring, but the thing I care more about is the fact that we have a relationship with each other, that I was at his wedding, that Kayla and I always reconnect every quarter or so just to check in.

The thing is that I knew them as people. I didn't know them as these abstract, quote unquote, "leaders" on a website and on a webpage. They weren't flat people to me. They were multidimensional. I would say the relationships I had, and because my GSB essay is about my relationship with Todd and about the power of authentic relationships, that led me to really want to explore how do you do that in the workplace? How do you build these kind of authentic relationships in a space where people are spending so much time? People and friends and community, they all mellowed me out. I just needed to take a breather and they helped me do that.

Taylor Goss:

I think that actually really connects to your "Imagine a World" statement. Imagining a world where there is no toxicity in the workplace.

Taylor Goss:

You mentioned the workplace. How would you define a toxic workplace? And how do you envision an alternative?

Willie Thompson:

Yeah, and so, by the way, the toxic workplace, just like sub workplace for any other shared environment you share with anyone, right? So maybe a toxic band.

Taylor Goss:

Many such cases.

Willie Thompson:

Really?

Taylor Goss:

Yeah.

Willie Thompson:

You don't say. What's the most toxic band, you think?

Taylor Goss:

We don't need to get into that.

Willie Thompson:

All right, we'll go off camera. I'm just curious.

Taylor Goss:

Maybe like Fleetwood Mac.

Willie Thompson:

I'm definitely going to follow up with that off the pod. So, I would say workplace toxicity is like any environment within a job that is marked by significant personal conflict. That can be negative interpersonal relationships, which are awful harmful to organizational dynamics. And then, I would say from harmful org dynamics to negative interpersonal relationships, both of those affect negatively employee well-being and also your productivity, your ability to get things done. And there's an interesting aside.

I don't know if I have time to talk about this, but with AI and everything that I find really crazy being here at Stanford, but before I came to Stanford, I was doing a lot of people and cultural work at Bridgespan, because of this in and out nature of being at Bridgespan for my fellowships. I got a chance to work on a lot of efforts that were about, how do you create community at this place, even if you want community? Or how would you define it? That spans racial equity, how people are assessed for their promotions? How do you build community during a pandemic, which we all experienced? And so, well, how can we do this well?

And this was a shortcoming of my time at the GSB. There wasn't a lot of space to talk about that. And I remember the first moment that happened at Stanford was David Gelles doing a book about Jack Welch, who used to be the CEO of General Electric, where he talked about a man who broke capitalism, because he pursued profit above everything else, through M&A, through layoffs, through financialization. I would highly recommend the book if anyone's interested in that. And so, just given what I was experiencing in my own personal life and professional life about, how do you do this well, and being in an environment where that conversation was not centered as much, I started thinking a lot about, "Okay, well then, what would it take for me to do that well? I need more perspectives, more viewpoints," hence doing another degree at the ed school.

And yeah, there are just so few good examples of ever moving workplace toxicity that led me to even working. I'm at a startup called Rising Team last summer that's run by a lecturer at the GSB who I basically gave the same spiel to. I talked to Jen, I said, "Hey, I think people suffer unduly at the workplace because managers, they have really bad managers." And she said, "I literally started a company to address this." And so I work with her, got a chance to be her chief of staff for a bit and to just support the business in its post-series A. And so that's just where I'm now. How do you remove these things and how do I find very concrete examples of leaders within the organizations addressing toxicity in a way that is sustainable and that's in service of long-term growth for the organization and for individuals.

Taylor Goss:

Yeah.

Sydney Hunt:

I'm curious, how are people receptive to the idea of we need a culture change, we need a culture shift? I think in my head, I mean I totally agree with you for sure, and I think in PhDs for example, lab environments, if you don't get along well with someone and you need to run experiments with them every day for months or multiple years, how is that going to work? Are people generally receptive to this idea of addressing a culture shift or is that even part of what you're doing now?

Willie Thompson:

It's not a ton of what I'm doing now, but it's something I just care about. So this is sort of where sometimes I struggle with even my Imagine A World statement and where I am right now in my life and career. I don't know if I necessarily need to make a career out of this.

Taylor Goss:

Sure.

Willie Thompson:

So my initial thought was if I do this organizations, then I'm well-equipped to do it regardless of what role I have. So I think some people, and this gets at like a, and I'll go on a quick tangent about this in a second, but then I have the requisite skills to just help regardless of if I am a chief people officer or whatever. And so I do think some of even my Imagine A World statement is less about what I want to do professionally, more about an ethos I want to carry with me and [inaudible 00:38:10].

Taylor Goss:

How you want to lead.

Willie Thompson:

It just depends, to be honest. I think a lot of times people are scared. I think a lot of times organizations are worried about what could be as opposed to what is, which I think is all understandable. And yet it is odd that I remember, and this is a nod to Knight-Hennessy, I would say I remember my first week at business school, I was talking to two classmates during a career session.

One of them wanted to go into growth equity, didn't know what that meant at the time, had no idea what that was. The other one wanted to go into startups. They want to do a renewables energy startup. And I remember basically talking and saying, "Yeah, I kind of believe people suffer in the workplace because their managers are bad, and businesses make decisions all the time. They actually destroy people's livelihood and actually kill people." I just read Eyal Press's book, 'Dirty Work, the Hidden Toll on Inequality in America', a really great book that talks about people who work disassembly lines and chicken factories, and the fact that they have to do that work so that we can have chicken in our grocery stores or people who are drone operators and have to operate in these drones and killing people, but then getting texts from their loved ones saying, "Hey, can you grab some milk from the grocery store?"

Just that weird juxtaposition. Anyway, I came with all this context. I remember saying, "I think people suffer because of poor work practices on behalf of employees, on behalf of other folks in the world." And their eyes just started glazing over as I was describing it. And I was like, okay, maybe I'm not describing this well enough. Maybe they're not into it, and I'll just wrap it up and say, "You know what? But I want to be a chief of staff to a CHRO." And they're like, "Oh yeah, chief of staff to a CHRO. Yeah, that makes sense."

Taylor Goss:

I see what [inaudible 00:39:47].

Willie Thompson:

But it's interesting because I had day one, the next day and later.

Taylor Goss:

Which is?

Willie Thompson:

Which is basically the first time you meet with your cohort on campus at Denning House, and I was talking to Catharine Bowman about-

Taylor Goss:

A light in this world.

Willie Thompson:

Truly. That's why the same thing. And I almost didn't start that way because it's like I already did the whole suffering thing and people were like, "I don't really get it." But she got it off the bat. And I feel like that's been the beauty of being in Knight-Hennessy, is that I have people who are willing, who are more willing to, in my experience, engage with these ideas in a deep way than I typically found in my business school curriculum. Just having that was very helpful to me. Business school is great for other things, but it was missing that piece for me.

People were just very afraid of what could change about the organization, which is why I think trying to build use cases, trying to build case studies about how companies have done this well, because I feel like we're just at a point in time where people are willing to take their own agency and quit jobs if it's not working out for them. And managers also have a ton of expectations on them too. So there's a balance to be struck, but there are examples of companies that have at least tried to step into this void and address the fact that workplaces, I think by some estimates like Jeffrey Pfeffer's book, on 'Dying for a Paycheck' estimated that if you count deaths from workplace stress and layoffs and the things of that nature, it's the fifth leading cause of death in the US. That makes sense.

I've seen people burn out and get to the point where they're unhealthy in the pursuit of their job. Right. That's a long answer to your question, but yeah, it just depends. And most people aren't fully embracing of it, but once you start seeing some of the benefits, I think that's when you can have a better sense of where you want to make decisions and where you want to make changes.

Taylor Goss:

Well, there's no one that I'd prefer to have a long answer from than you.

Sydney Hunt:

Yes, absolutely.

Taylor Goss:

So at this point in our conversation, you've moved to a place where you're more motivated by what you want to see out of the world.

Willie Thompson:

Yeah.

Taylor Goss:

You're more excited about building community in ways that you see are healthy based on your experiences and what you've seen in workplaces.

Willie Thompson:

For sure.

Taylor Goss:

And you've just mentioned entering the Knight-Hennessy community. You mentioned friend of the pod and friend to the world, Catharine Bowman. When you've moved into this community at Stanford and in Knight-Hennessy as this version of Willie, as Sydney put it, I want to know about two things that have happened adjacent for you moving into this Stanford Knight-Hennessy community, and how has that affected your life? And number two, you're starting a young family at the same time. How does community work between those two contexts between you as a father and a husband and as a member of these communities?

Willie Thompson:

Yeah, that's a good question. Being a great husband and father were two of my biggest goals in life. And an important part of being able to do both of those things well is that you have to have community. So Naomi and I got married about a month before we came out here, and within three years we had two kids. So there's no way we would've made it without the support of community from Stanford, from our church and from our family. And honestly, none of this is possible without my amazing wife, Naomi, who encourages me to make the most of the time I have here.

So as you can attest, you'll often see me with one of the kids for coffee chats, catch-ups or even events. So we found a lot of support, especially Knight-Hennessy, around just a couple weeks ago we were on spring break and just Sunny, my oldest does not. She's very active. I was like, "You know what? We're just going to go to Denning House. You're going to run around, get your energy out."

Taylor Goss:

Yeah. How old is Sunny?

Willie Thompson:

She'll be 19 months this month. Yeah. And then Ezra, my youngest son, well, youngest child, our son, he's two months, around two months old. So yeah, so we came here and then Jordyn played with Sunny for a little bit just as she was doing some stuff upstairs. And so it was very welcoming. And I know we're doing a panel on this, I think soon about parenting at Stanford and everything.

Taylor Goss:

Fantastic.

Willie Thompson:

I do think it doesn't really get talked about a ton, and I feel like, and I don't know Stacy, you can probably attest to this. You sort of don't become acutely aware of how not built for families the world is until you have one. Right. And I'll give you a bougie example. So as someone who has worked some jobs that paid decent amount of money and all that stuff, we have an Amex card, we have a platinum Amex card, so that gets you access to Delta lounges. I'm a Delta stan, hashtag keep climbing.

I remember going in the lounge on our first family trip with Sunny, and I remember being there and there wasn't a changing table in the lounge, and I was asked, "Hey, where's the changing table?" They said, "Oh, you have to go out and go to the yoga room a little bit down the hallway." I was like, "What does it say about the people who are normally in these lounges that you don't have a changing table." You can have three showers, you can have all this stuff, but not a changing table. That's crazy. And so I think being a parent and being a part of this community has helped me realize points where the community piece isn't as ...

Taylor Goss:

Even in luxury spaces.

Willie Thompson:

Yeah, or even the individualism and the community thing, are at odds and attention with one another. So yeah, so I feel like that's been an interesting thing to observe and notice. I would say to the question about, is it me moving through Knight-Hennessy and the value of it basically is, I've always found value in liberal education, interdisciplinary learning. I learned more about me and the world I live in because I situate myself in other people's worlds. I did a lot of that last quarter. I took classes across five different schools at Stanford, so I was taking two med school classes. I took a class in theater performing arts. I took a class at the D School, I took a class at the business school. I took a class at the ed school. And I think because I had the flexibility financially with Knight-Hennessy to do that, that's something that brought me into a lot of different worlds.

I know a lot more about ischemic and hemorrhagic strokes apparently now, and even just those worlds. So I think for me, it's been really helpful to broaden how I can connect with people. To me, at the end of the day, it's all about how can I connect with someone and understand their situation. And so if I know how often people in med school have these huge exams, and I saw that play out in a seminar where people blitzed out of the class right on time to meet an exam thing or talking to someone like Johnny Powell about all the tests he takes as a med school student, that creates a space for me to build a better relationship with them. And everyone at Knight-Hennessy too, the family point has been very supportive of Naomi and I and Nemi and me. I always get that mixed up.

People are just so generous and we really appreciate that because it can be a struggle, just parenting and not knowing everything you need to know, but then having people walk hand in hand with you. And so just as I feel like at Knight-Hennessy walk hand in hand with each other to solve problems that matter to us, I find that happening also in community when it comes to just living life. And so yeah, I would say it's been really inspiring and very refreshing to just have that support here, especially when we're so far away from our families.

Taylor Goss:

Yeah, I'm so happy to hear that.

Sydney Hunt:

Me too. Me too. I love when yes, Sunny comes to run around. I feel like it's cute to see her, and it's nice to have that change of pace. I feel like a lot of times you're coming to Denning and you have lunch and you are friends with people or coming to SDE, but I think all of a sudden there's almost this mindset shift of everyone just like a, "Oh, hello." And then everyone just relaxes a little bit. And so I'm glad that you feel supported by KH, and I know that there's a lot of work being put in progress to even make Denning and Knight-Hennessy in general, more family oriented and family friendly.

Willie Thompson:

Yeah, for sure.

Sydney Hunt:

Yeah. So I think that's a great thing.

Willie Thompson:

Having kids around is nice. Yeah.

Sydney Hunt:

Yeah, for sure.

Taylor Goss:

So with your gallivanting around campus, taking all these different classes, you're a guy who likes to mix things up. What are other ways in which you have mixed fields or programs within Stanford, and why do you think that's important with the current state of the world in web technology?

Willie Thompson:

So I would say first I want a clear example is do an introduction to clown with Courtney Burton. We talked about it on our episode last year. That class is a ton of fun. And it's just fun to do stuff that's embodied. I kind of feel like at a graduate school, you're very much in your head like, let me learn this thing, let me apply it. It's a problem. But just doing something with your body and playing around with improv and comedic timing was a ton of fun. I would say that your question about mixing it up, I think it is core to what I believe about the value of education.

And I will say this is a bit of a difference of the value of education generationally for me and my family. So I think for sure, education was a tool of economic mobility for my mom and a bunch of other people who were first generation and college students, she went to Alabama State, so we're a dual HBCU family. And I found that in the privilege I have as someone who wasn't going to college for the first time and didn't have to make.a choice solely out of economic gain coming out of college, because I could have gone into a for-profit consulting. I took a 30,000 pay cut to go to Bridgespan. I could essentially not like a four because we had a ton of money, but I didn't go in with a lot of debt. I had a scholarship from Morehouse. So I could afford to take a risk and just say, "I'm going to go work at this place in a very expensive area and figure that out."

So for me, education, because of these conversations I mentioned with my Morehouse brothers and everything, I've learned so much about myself by situating myself next to people who have different experiences. And I think that's what we need more of in the world, is just the ability to understand someone's world and the ability to step into it. And so even though I'm not a medical student, I can understand to some degree what it's like to be in a med school class. And it's just interesting because most people are surprised to hear that I was doing some of this stuff. I'm just like, "Well, I feel like if you have an opportunity to do a once in lifetime thing, why not use it to be in service of building once in a lifetime community or connections?" That's why I decided to go to POLS, policy organizations and leadership studies, shoutout to the POLS fam.

And because to me, and I will be candid about this. To me, I won't do that. I'll be candid because it assumes you're not being candid, whatever. And I'll just say that my experience at the business school, while it was great for building connections, it was great for expanding my understanding about how the business world worked. When I think about my experience at the GSB, amazing professors and lecturers like Adina Sterling, Jennifer Eberhardt, Scotty McLennan, Alison Kluger, Michele Gelfand, Rachel Konrad, Kirsten Moss, Fern Mandelbaum, Charles Hudson, Charles O'Reilly, Joel Peterson, and Irv Grousbeck, just to name a few.

So I mean, when I think about my GSB experience, I think about those core memories for sure. And yet, in terms of my experience as a student, it still was insufficient in helping me answer the questions that I had myself around. A business makes these decisions, and I can go through two quickest examples if we have time. I remember being in a class on political economy. We're doing a case about Tata, which is a firm in India. We had this case where we had to decide where to put a factory in India. I might have told some people this story before, so I actually pulled up the table from the case. So we were having this huge discussion. Where should Tata create this new factory and should it be in Kharagpur? Should it be in Pantnagar, Sinan, or Srinagr? This table has civic status, closest railway station ...

Willie Thompson:

The table has civic status, closest railway station, population, and people are saying temperature.

Taylor Goss:

All factors that could affect the decision.

Willie Thompson:

Exactly. Some people are saying, "Oh, we should be in the cooler location because you don't have to pay for AC, and that makes it cheaper." Then I'm looking at this case, and there's two lines here that say, "Percent scheduled cast and percent scheduled tribe." I remember basically in class saying, "Hey, what challenges will I face if I go into places like higher percent scheduled cast or not?" I didn't get a great answer there and I was like, oh, that's weird. Why are we not having a discussion about some of these things? Which is odd to me.

Another class I was taking on finance was about capital markets. You look at endowments, what they're spending money on and where they allocate it. It's co-taught with a chief investment officer, so we're talking about this trend for businesses, about them investing more in private equity and venture capital because you get higher returns typically on those things. I just had a simple question about, I was reading this article from the New Yorker about a private equity company called the Portopiccolo Group, who rolled up a bunch of nursing homes during the pandemic. I'm not in private equity, so I can't say I know the playbook to a T, but generally the thought is a private equity, they roll up a bunch of companies, cut a lot of the costs to increase profitability.

Taylor Goss:

Sure.

Willie Thompson:

Could you imagine cutting a staff to patient ratio of three-to-one to one-to-one for a nursing home during COVID. People died much higher rates at these owned nursing homes. I asked a simple question. If places like Stanford, Harvard, other places are investing more money in private equity, to what degree are they aware of the strategies these private equity companies are using to generate these returns?

I did this via email because sometimes when I talk it can get a little meandering, and so I tried to be very concise and direct. Then this person, it's not their job to know what the strategy is, it's their job to understand the returns, the risk factors, whatever. I said, "Well then how do you get to an understanding of what values you have as organizations?" Because I'm sure even if your organization generated billions of dollars off of a return from some of these investments, or millions of dollars more likely, you don't want people dying. You don't don't want to be tied to people dying because of that. I basically got told, "Oh, we look at the website" was the answer I got. To which I'm like, that's crazy.

Taylor Goss:

It wasn't a deep enough answer.

Willie Thompson:

It wasn't a deep enough answer. Then I was like, well, if we're not having deep and meaningful conversations about this at the business school... I'll talk to Knight-Hennessy scholars who thought about doing the MBA but decided to do PhDs instead, and I get that trade off now about being able to think deeply about these things. I said, "Okay, I want to go somewhere else. I want to go to a different school and really have the space to explore some of these things." And POLS has been fantastic for that. So grateful for Anne, who's the director of POLS and just creating so many opportunities for us to talk about things like positionality to, as I've learned at the ed school, complexify stuff. That's where that comes out a lot is like how to make some of these things that seem so simple on the outset much more complicated, because they are.

The only way I can make something complex seem more simple is by understanding all the different vantage points upon which it is understood. I can't just look at something from a business perspective. I also have to look at it from a systems perspective. I look at it from, I don't know, other fields of study, because they all have different responses and dispositions to how to solve a thing. If I'm only focused on the business and how business thinks of it, then I'm missing out on the ability not just to think about it differently, but to work with people who think about it differently, because the truth exists somewhere in all of our collective efforts. That was another long answer, but I'll leave it there.

Taylor Goss:

Yeah.

Sydney Hunt:

It's a beautiful ending. Speaking of ending, we do have to think about closing this episode, unfortunately, as much as I want to talk to you forever.

Taylor Goss:

We could go on for hours.

Sydney Hunt:

You mentioned the word truth in your last sentence, and as many of us know, if you listened to other podcasts before, the end of every episode talks about some truths about our person being interviewed, and the truth specifically meaning your improbable facts. For those who don't know, every time you apply to Knight-Hennessy, we ask applicants to list eight improbable facts about them. These are things that are true about them, but people wouldn't necessarily know. Willie, I was curious if you wanted to share any of yours.

Willie Thompson:

You know what's crazy? This was the hardest part of the application for me.

Taylor Goss:

Everyone says that.

Sydney Hunt:

Everyone says that.

Taylor Goss:

Myself included.

Willie Thompson:

I think as a result of that, I have not thought about improbable facts about myself ever since then. It was such a mental exercise to be like, okay, what's improbable? Okay, no, that's not improbable enough, or that's just dramatic.

Taylor Goss:

What does improbable even mean?

Willie Thompson:

Yeah. I would say that one of the things that's an improbable fact about me is that I got a varsity letter in marching band and football, even though I never played on the team. Yeah, the story there is this whole thing about community. My brother Ronnie was a phenomenal high school athlete, and because we lived together and everything, I would work out with the football team, because I was like, it's a free workout. I work out with the football team and the coach would be like, "Hey man, you should really play." I'm like, "Nah, I'm in marching band."

Then they would even use that as fodder. They would be like, "Oh man, you're letting the marching band kid beat y'all" in the running stuff or in weightlifting. I remember at the banquet, they gave me an honorary letter or something in high school for the football team, because I was going on more the workouts than the football players were because it was nice to be free and also just to hang out with my brother. Because of all my school stuff, we didn't get a chance to hang out a lot.

In college, I reflect a lot about the times he would come in my room and say, "Hey, let's go do this" or, "Hey, let's go do that." I'm like, "I can't. I'm studying." Yeah. I felt like that was a really cool moment for me on the improbable facts. Yeah, that's one improbable fact and I'll leave it there.

Sydney Hunt:

I love that. I feel like the theme of music has been very consistent throughout your episode and that makes me very happy.

Willie Thompson:

Oh, for sure.

Taylor Goss:

Sort of latently.

Willie Thompson:

It is.

Taylor Goss:

While we're touching down here, I wonder if I could put you on the spot a little bit.

Willie Thompson:

Go for it.

Taylor Goss:

Just I want to know.

Willie Thompson:

Okay.

Taylor Goss:

What are the Willie Thompson-certified five greatest records of all time?

Willie Thompson:

Five greatest records of all time?

Taylor Goss:

What are your five favorite albums of all time?

Willie Thompson:

Albums?

Taylor Goss:

Yeah.

Willie Thompson:

Oh, man. That's tough, bro.

Taylor Goss:

First five that come to mind.

Willie Thompson:

All right, so first five that come to mind. All right, so Good Kid, M.A.A.D. City by Kendrick Lamar. That came out my freshman year of college and I just remember people bumping it in their rooms as I was walking around the hall. Good Kid, M.A.A.D. City. No particular order. Songs in the Key of Life. Got to have that one. Must have.

Taylor Goss:

Thank you, Stevie.

Willie Thompson:

You got to have that one. I would say the Kung Fu Panda soundtrack.

Taylor Goss:

Okay. Curveball.

Sydney Hunt:

I have friends who stand by this. They're so passionate about this.

Willie Thompson:

It is a Hans Zimmer thing, so he has a whole discography, but the Kung Fu Panda, I used to listen to that to do work.

Taylor Goss:

You mean the score?

Willie Thompson:

Sorry. Yeah, the score.

Taylor Goss:

The film score.

Willie Thompson:

Yeah, because there is no soundtrack, but yeah, the score. I listen to Kung Fu Panda all iterations, except for the fourth. I have a hot take about the fourth Kung.

Sydney Hunt:

Wow.

Willie Thompson:

I think they need the Furious Five in the fourth Kung Fu Panda movie. All right, so it was going to be the closest thing we had to a clean sweep of an animated movie that had at least three movies and they're all good.

Taylor Goss:

Okay.

Willie Thompson:

Because Shrek kind of fell off.

Taylor Goss:

Toy Story's on a good run.

Willie Thompson:

Toy Story's on a good run. That's one of the exceptions, but Kung Fu Panda, 1, 2, 3, the lessons. Yesterday's history, tomorrow's a mystery, day is a gift, that's why it's called the present. Self-healing in the second movie. Identifying who you are in the third. Anyway, and then the cast is great. Anyway, so Kung Fu Panda.

Taylor Goss:

Okay, go there. That's great.

Willie Thompson:

I'd say Ballads by Dexter Gordon. Dexter Gordon has a Ballads album that we listened to in college just to play in the background.

Taylor Goss:

Do you have a favorite ballad from that? Because it's like standards, right?

Willie Thompson:

Darn That Dream.

Taylor Goss:

Darn That Dream.

Willie Thompson:

Darn That Dream, yeah.

Taylor Goss:

A man of culture. A man of taste.

Willie Thompson:

I'm trying. Then the fifth one, okay, Epiphany by T-Pain.

Sydney Hunt:

Oh.

Taylor Goss:

Yes.

Willie Thompson:

That was the first album I bought with my physical money.

Sydney Hunt:

Nice.

Willie Thompson:

Should not have been listening to at that age, I was 12, 13 or whatever, but yeah, I bought it. I was a T-Pain stan back in the day. Lil Wayne, whoever, T-Pain is the best one we got. Yeah, five greatest albums.

Taylor Goss:

Incredible. I think Stacy has a guest question, is that right?

Stacy Peña:

I do have a guest question, which is, what is Willie Thompson's walk-on song?

Taylor Goss:

What is Willie Thompson's walk-on song, is Stacy's question.

Willie Thompson:

What's my walk-on song?

Sydney Hunt:

That's a good question.

Willie Thompson:

It would change based on like the phase of life I was in. I would say probably right now it's probably TV Off.

Sydney Hunt:

Good one.

Willie Thompson:

Yeah, that's probably my walk-on song.

Taylor Goss:

Timely.

Willie Thompson:

Yeah, but Kendrick. Yeah, it's probably TV Off.

Taylor Goss:

You wearing bell-bottoms when you walk on?

Willie Thompson:

For sure.

Taylor Goss:

Okay.

Willie Thompson:

For sure. Yeah, that's my walk-on song for now.

Taylor Goss:

I just want to make a note, this was completely off the dome.

Willie Thompson:

This was off the dome.

Taylor Goss:

The man knows himself. We did not talk about this before.

Willie Thompson:

Okay, so in hindsight, immediately after recording this episode, I was like, man, I had some glaring omissions in my list. Granted, I was put on the spot, so sometimes I just go with what was most comfortable, but I need to make a couple of adjustments to this list.

In terms of the soundtrack category, I would replace Kung Fu Panda, which is great, with the soundtrack to The Prince of Egypt. If you've never seen that movie, just see it. The soundtrack is fantastic. Mariah Carey, Boyz II Men, Whitney Houston, it's crazy. I'd also swap out potentially Dexter Gordon's Ballads with either Heaux Tales from Jazmine Sullivan or The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill. Got to give my sister some love on that one. I would probably switch that one out.

Then I would swap out probably Epiphany for Donnie McClurkin's Again, classic gospel album. I also was listening to that album a bunch my freshman year of college. This is me on the back end speaking to some omissions I had from my list. Just make it a little more balanced for perspective. Again, my five, no particular order, Good Kid, M.A.A.D. City by Kendrick Lamar, Donnie McClurkin's Again, Heaux Tales or The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill. Then we would go to The Prince of Egypt soundtrack. Then the fifth one would be Songs in The Key of Life by Stevie Wonder. That's my five. Okay. Let's get back to the end of the episode.

Taylor Goss:

Thank you so much for sharing that. As much as we have talked about music, Willie, I feel like I have genuinely gained additional insight into you through those answers.

Willie Thompson:

For sure. Yeah, man. Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah. Oh, man. Ulysses Owens also has some great tracks, but I haven't listened to any of his albums, but that's a separate thing. Yeah, no, I appreciate the time and I can close out if that's okay on the pod.

Taylor Goss:

Yeah, you do you, buddy.

Sydney Hunt:

Yes.

Willie Thompson:

Yeah, man, I would say this podcast has been the thing that I wish I had when I was applying for these fellowships. A lot of what I wanted was something that peeked beyond the prestige, that went beyond what publicly gets discussed about these spaces. I wanted to grapple with what is it like to be a person and to live in these spaces and to build connections with folks who are in these spaces? I've been blessed to know that people in these spaces are amazing. We haven't talked about advice and we've got a lot of advice for people on the pod. I would just definitely encourage people to apply, listen to Imagine A World, and try to find opportunities to really get to know the people behind the programs outside of their profiles.

The only way I'm able to have the life that I have, a lot of this due to my wife. I love Naomi. Without her, would not be able to do any of the things that I'm doing right now. I'm very grateful to be at this point in my life, to have seen some things that I care about come to fruition. I know that Sydney and the rest of the team and Anson and Max and Ashley, and everyone's going to do a great job with the pod moving forward. It's bittersweet, but it's right. I'm very glad to have this opportunity to share with you too.

Sydney Hunt:

I want to say thank you so much to Willie. We had Town Hall last week, which is a quarterly update that Knight-Hennessy scholars get to go to, and I was very honored and excited that I got to publicly recognize Willie for all his contributions to the pod. I feel really grateful in this room right now sitting with Willie and Taylor, who are the original creators of the podcast. You can tell it's such a strong family. Taylor came all the way up from LA, drove just to be here for this episode and to surprise Willie. I don't take it lightly that you all are entrusting me to carry on your legacies, and I'm thankful for your time, your energy, your presence. What you've taught me has been incredible, and I look forward to making a lot of more episodes and hopefully making you proud with all the future ones that come out.

Willie Thompson:

For sure.

Sydney Hunt:

Thank you so much, and thanks for sharing your story too, Willie. It's been wonderful to listen.

Willie Thompson:

Yeah, of course. I appreciate it. Yeah, I should have thugged here at the Town Hall. I was like, all the emotions are hitting me.

Sydney Hunt:

Yeah. We had the slideshow too of a bunch of photos.

Willie Thompson:

Yeah, the slideshow was great too.

Sydney Hunt:

Shout out to Micaela for putting that together.

Willie Thompson:

For sure. Shout out to Micaela. Oh, I do have one last thing I want to say, then I'll be done for sure. I would say a couple things, and this is me saying this hourly, and it's also me saying this also to the program. I really think we need to be very clear and committed to what it means to be a community with people. I think that's a word that gets thrown around a lot and it gets thrown around quite lightly. I think based on my experiences that I've talked about before, being at Morehouse, doing something like Schwarzman, not being here at Knight-Hennessy, and even how I grew up, I have a very high bar for what counts as community. I think we should just continue to think about what it looks like to build that community.

I'm passionate about HBC representation in these fellowships and scholarships. These programs don't do a great job of having those folks and that perspective represented. There's a whole bunch of reasons why, but I would especially say to anyone from a minority-serving institution like an HBCU, I would definitely encourage you to apply. Your experiences are worth telling, and you also would be great candidates for the program. I would say don't let Stanford or the brand or the idea you have around the prestige keep you from taking your shot, because it can definitely pay off in the long run. It's not with its own set of challenges, but it's worth it in the end so far. I can attest to that.

Taylor Goss:

Well said, man. Thank you for sharing that and thank you for sharing your story and your life with us. It is so genuinely meaningful that I got to be here for your episode, because we've been in it together since the beginning and I genuinely could not have done it without you. I learned so much about leadership and about organization and about friendship, and about just being a man from you. You inspire me every day and I'm so happy to be your friend. I think that we are all indebted to you for your presence in this community and everything that you have contributed, and we love you so much and we all are just so excited to see where you and your family go and how you continue to bless us. Thank you, Willie.

Sydney Hunt:

Thank you so much, Willie. We love you.

Thank you for joining us for this episode of Imagine A World, where we hear from inspiring members of the KHS community who are making significant contributions in their respective fields, challenging the status quo and pushing the boundaries of what is possible as they imagine the world they want to see.

Willie Thompson:

This podcast is sponsored by Knight-Hennessy Scholars at Stanford University, a multidisciplinary, multicultural graduate fellowship program providing scholars with financial support to pursue graduate studies at Stanford while helping equip them to be visionary, courageous, and collaborative leaders who address complex challenges facing the world. Follow us on social media at Knight-Hennessy, and visit our website at kh.stanford.edu to learn more about the program and our community.