Making justice a right, not a privilege
In this episode of Imagine A World, a podcast by Knight-Hennessy Scholars, Will Dwyer (2023 cohort) and Sydney Hunt (2023 cohort) speak with Gianmarco Coronado Graci (2023 cohort) about how his lived experiences have fueled his desire to work towards a world where access to justice is a right and not a privilege. Gianmarco also shares his experiences studying law in Mexico and then transitioning to Stanford after working as an adjunct professor of law at the Instituto Tecnológico Autónomo de México and as a senior associate at a litigation law firm in Mexico City.
Guest
Gianmarco Coronado Graci (2023 cohort), from Mexico City, Mexico, is pursuing a master of the science of law degree at Stanford Law School and a master of public policy degree at Stanford School of Humanities and Sciences. He graduated summa cum laude from Instituto Tecnológico Autónomo de México (ITAM) with a bachelor’s degree in law. Gianmarco is passionate about constitutional law and aspires to study the challenges that communities and individuals in Latin America face in accessing justice. He is also interested in employing technological tools to streamline judicial proceedings and facilitate settlements.
Gianmarco worked as an adjunct professor of law at ITAM and as a senior associate at a leading litigation and arbitration law firm in Mexico City. Throughout his legal career, he has focused on a range of issues, including access to health, transparency, free speech, anti-corruption, and discrimination. He has also served as external legal counsel for a nongovernmental organization dedicated to public interest litigation.
Imagine A World team
Imagine A World's theme music was composed and recorded by Taylor Goss (2021 cohort). The podcast was originally conceived and led by Briana Mullen (2020 cohort), Taylor Goss, and Willie Thompson (2022 cohort), along with Daniel Gajardo (2020 cohort) and Jordan Conger (2020 cohort).
Knight-Hennessy scholars represent a vast array of cultures, perspectives, and experiences. While we as an organization are committed to elevating their voices, the views expressed are those of the scholars, and not necessarily those of KHS.
Full transcript
Note: Transcripts are generated by machine and lightly edited by humans. They may contain errors.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
I am Gianmarco Coronado Graci. I'm part of the 2023 cohort of Knight-Hennessy Scholars and I'm doing a Masters in Law and I just started a Master's in Public Policy at the School of Humanities and Sciences. I Imagine A World where access to justice is a right and not a privilege. Gianmarco Coronado Graci [Spanish 00:00:30].
Sydney Hunt:
Welcome to the Imagine A World Podcast from Knight-Hennessy Scholars. We are here to give you a glimpse into the Knight-Hennessy Scholar community of graduate students spanning all seven Stanford schools, including business, education, engineering, humanities, law, medicine, and sustainability. In each episode, we talk with scholars about the world they imagine and what they are doing to bring it to life.
Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Imagine A World. My name is Sydney and I'm really excited to be one of your co-hosts. I am part of the 2023 Knight-Hennessy Scholars Cohort, and I'm doing a PhD in electrical engineering. Today is definitely going to be one of my favorite episodes because the two people in the room are one of my closest friends, not only at Stanford, but just in life. I have so much love in my heart for these two, and you'll be hearing new voices, but perhaps familiar voices if you're a regular listener. So the voice you'll hear next is, if you listen to episode 15, you might know him as Will Dwyer and our flower facts friend. But Will is going to be my other co-host today in this guest co-host episode. So I'm really excited to talk to him, talk with him, and Will go ahead and tell the listeners who you are.
Will Dwyer:
What's up? It's Will. So happy to be back. Will Dwyer, for those of you who don't know me, 2023 Cohort Knight-Hennessy Scholars, PhD candidate recently minted as of two weeks ago.
Sydney Hunt:
Congratulations.
Will Dwyer:
Same with you I believe Sydney.
Sydney Hunt:
Yes, as of two days ago yeah.
Will Dwyer:
Fantastic.
Sydney Hunt:
Yeah.
Will Dwyer:
We all knew you could do it. Bravo.
Sydney Hunt:
Thank you. That's very sweet. You too.
Will Dwyer:
Bio department, I am similarly a bit nervous as I was on episode 15, just something about that mic sitting in front of you that just gives you the jitters. But nonetheless, super excited to be here without a doubt, one of my Stanford besties in the flesh. Gianmarco, welcome to the pod.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Hey everyone. I just want to say what a great privilege just to have my two favorite people in the same room with mics in front of us, so this is going to be a lot of fun. I also want to say that my two favorite people are also now officially candidates, so that's pretty amazing.
Will Dwyer:
That's right.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
I always knew they could do it, but-
Sydney Hunt:
Thank you.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
... now it's official.
Sydney Hunt:
That's very kind. Yeah. I want to give a special shout out to Gianny for listening to my practice presentation, especially on a day that I was perhaps not feeling super great about how my qualifying exam was going to go. I think he restored a lot of faith and trust in myself, so I appreciate you. And especially as a lawyer too, listening to people talk about brain-computer interface research, electrical engineering, I think it's a special part of the KH community and the friendships that we form where we're not afraid to learn about new things. Like yesterday I... Do you want to tell the listeners what happened yesterday?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Sure.
Sydney Hunt:
I was very fortunate to be able to witness you in action.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Sure, I just want to go back to that practice session. Sydney worked out a miracle because she managed to make me kind of understand what her research is all about. I've known her for over a year and now I finally kind of get it. So that's definitely a miracle. The moment she went through her slides, I was like, "Okay, if I can get it, her committee will be more than impressed."
Sydney Hunt:
Thank you. That's very kind.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
So kudos for that. And yeah, yesterday Sydney joined us at the law school. We had the visit from a Mexican Supreme Court Justice, Justice Margarita Ríos-Farjat. She gave a presentation and then I was really honored to interview her and asked a couple of questions and then take some questions from the audience. I cannot promise that my presentation was as good as Sydney's presentation for her qualifying exams, but hopefully you did understand-
Sydney Hunt:
Absolutely.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
... a part of the legal things that were discussed there, which aren't very user-friendly or very non-law friendly. So I really appreciate you for being there.
Sydney Hunt:
Of course. No, it was my pleasure. I was bragging to my lab actually. I was like, "Bye guys, I got to leave. I'm going to go see my friend's talk."
Will Dwyer:
Meet a Supreme Court Justice.
Sydney Hunt:
Yeah, exactly. And I think that was also very special right because she's from Mexico and you are also from Mexico. And so I think it was really cool to be able to see you have that little bond and now I'm like, "Dang, should we do this episode in Spanish?"
Will Dwyer:
Please no.
Sydney Hunt:
What do you think?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Yes, it definitely was very special. I had followed her career, I've read, probably a couple of years ago, started reading some of her decisions. I think she's amazing. And having the opportunity to just have a conversation with her and just walking with her around the Stanford campus, it was truly, truly amazing. And it's also, I don't know, there's a weird thing I guess when you meet someone you admire and you figure out that they're also a normal person and that they're actually nice, and they laugh and then they have coffee like any other person. I think the human factor is just amazing. And to your second point, I think we definitely should have the episode in Spanish.
Sydney Hunt:
Si.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Sorry Will, you can always open a ChatGPT or something and I'm sure it can help.
Sydney Hunt:
Translate it different. Yeah, I'll say [Spanish 00:06:16] Imagine A World [Spanish 00:06:19].
Will Dwyer:
Okay Sydney flexing.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
She's flexing-
Sydney Hunt:
[Spanish 00:06:27].
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
[Spanish 00:06:31].
Sydney Hunt:
[Spanish 00:06:34].
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
[Spanish 00:06:34].
Will Dwyer:
[Spanish 00:06:37].
Sydney Hunt:
Yeah, Will is trilingual. So you may have heard some French in his episodes-
Will Dwyer:
That's false.
Sydney Hunt:
... but-
Will Dwyer:
That's false.
Sydney Hunt:
No, no. Yeah. Well actually it's not necessarily false because we all went to Mexico together as a friend group over Thanksgiving break.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Not sponsored by KH or Stanford, by the way.
Sydney Hunt:
Just a friendship.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
We legally have to make that disclaimer.
Sydney Hunt:
Yes, exactly. That was just a bunch of friends getting together and spending time with people they love. But Will did speak Spanish a few times on the trip, and so I want to give him credit for-
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Lots of gracias.
Will Dwyer:
Yeah, lots of gracias.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Hola, gracias. People understood it so mission accomplished.
Will Dwyer:
Yeah. To be clear though, Gianny did do all of the guiding and the-
Sydney Hunt:
He's amazing.
Will Dwyer:
... organizing for that trip, and it was really special actually as his new friend to see where he came from and understand a little bit more about how Gianny is who he is. Yeah, thank you for that.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
You didn't try the bugs though?
Will Dwyer:
I did.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
You didn't try the bugs.
Will Dwyer:
I had a bug taco. I like the bugs when they're processed. My issue is when they're spicy and they still have legs, that's when I start having a problem with the bugs.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
In Mexico with crickets, chapulines in Spanish and they're spicy and you see the whole bug and you just eat it. I love them, but people have a hard time just eating them.
Sydney Hunt:
I thought they were good. Yeah, I thought they were good. And Zed liked them too. Yeah. So it was-
Will Dwyer:
Yes, Zed, my partner is famously down to eat-
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Shout out to Zed.
Sydney Hunt:
Shout out to Zed.
Will Dwyer:
... whatever is presented in front of him. But I wanted to go back quickly to that event you organized yesterday at the law school.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Sure.
Will Dwyer:
Am I correct in understanding that this is not the first time you host a Supreme Court justice of Mexico on this campus? And if so, how are you so well-connected?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
I'm an affiliate at the Neukom Center for the Rule of Law, and we have a series of speakers. It's called the Rule of Law Speaker Series. And the idea is that each year we invite, I think it's three presentations per quarter, so nine in total. And we basically invite people from all over the world, judges in particular, but not only close to judges. I think we've also hosted prosecutors. And the idea is that they come, they give a presentation and they explain how the rule of law situation is in their home countries or in their jurisdictions. And last year, my thesis advisor from my law program, Diego Zambrano, he's the director of the program, and he asked me to invite a Supreme Court Justice from Mexico, and I invited Justice Alfredo Gutiérrez Ortiz Mena. It's funny because I didn't know him before, but I just sent an email with my Stanford email and got a reply. That email really opens a lot of doors.
Will Dwyer:
Powerful domain. Yeah.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Really powerful domain.
Sydney Hunt:
Very much.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
I think once you graduate, they shut it down because-
Sydney Hunt:
But you can do the alumni.stanford.edu.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Yeah, but it's not the same.
Sydney Hunt:
It's not the same. Yeah.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
The @stanford.edu definitely works. So that's how we hosted last year, Justice Gutiérrez and this year Justice Ríos. So yeah, I just love those events. And again, it allows you to get to know the person beyond their judgments, beyond their opinions or public stances. And it's always nice to organize part of the Mexican Association of Graduate Students. And we also like to organize a coffee chat with whenever a Mexican speaker comes.
And it's so interesting because it's closed door probably in a meeting room smaller than where we are right now. And you really get close to a speaker and people ask all sorts of questions, many times things you wouldn't normally ask during a public event, it's closed door, Chatham House Rules, you cannot record, you cannot take pictures, but you really get to see the person, and you really get to understand where their stances come from or what they really think. The speakers are usually very comfortable. We had a coffee chat with Justice Ríos as well, and they are very comfortable and it's all in Spanish and it's very, very informal and it's very just ask whatever you want and they'll try to answer it if it's possible.
Will Dwyer:
Yeah. I was actually at that event that you organized, and I distinctly remember sitting in the second row, I think of that auditorium, completely confused for the first 30 minutes during the monologue section of the talk. And then when it came to questions, this guy was amazing. I mean, the way he was answering the questions, you could tell he was very limited in what he was actually allowed to say, and yet he was just having this incredible super eloquent ideas and thoughts about a legal structure that I don't understand anything about. So it was really interesting to be in that with you. And obviously the law is a big component of who you are. It's a big component of your Imagine A World statements. But before we talk about the world you imagine, can we talk a little bit about the world you were born into and have experienced thus far?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Yes.
Will Dwyer:
So Gianny where are you from and what was your journey here to Stanford?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
I'll try to make it as short as possible, but I am originally from Mexico City. I've basically lived in Mexico City all of my life. So born and raised Chilango and I lived there basically all of my life and all of my professional academic life as well. I studied law in Mexico at ITAM, which is a small school in the southern part of Mexico City. I went to law school. I think in everywhere but the United States is in undergrad. The United States has this weird thing of you don't go for law as an undergrad, you go as a grad student. But I think pretty much everywhere else, at least Mexico works that way. So I went to law school at 18 years old with three things in mind. I was bad at math, I liked to read and I was pretty good at arguing with people and arguing for free.
So those were the three things that I had in mind when you're a kid and you're given this very important life-changing decision of what do you want to do? Do you want to become a doctor, which is also an undergrad degree in Mexico, or you want to study economics or you want to do law...
Will Dwyer:
At 17, you have to decide?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
At 17 or even earlier because you have to start applying and you have to go through all the application processes.
So I think it was a very impulsive decision. I don't regret it. I actually am very happy with the law and with decisions I made, but I look back at it and I think it was very impulsive. One day we had this orientation class and I just hated that class because back then everyone has an opinion and you say, "Oh, I'm thinking about starting PoliSci." And someone will pop out of nowhere and start saying, "No, I think PoliSci is a very bad idea." You're used to speaking with adults and these are figures of authority. So you're like, "Oh, maybe PoliSci is a very bad idea."
So one day I hated a class, we had to present what we wanted to study, and I was like, "Yes, I'll just do law. It sounds like a good idea and you can always pivot afterwards." I graduated from high school. I lived six months in Florence, in Italy. My mom's from Italy, so I always wanted to live there. My excuse to my parents was that I didn't have a certificate that said that I speak Italian and I couldn't put it in my CV, like my mom taught me Italian, so I convinced them somehow miraculously to let me go to Florence for six months. I lived in Florence for six months.
Florence to me, it's the most amazing city, after Mexico City of course. And it was just great opportunity of living in museums and just walking. Mexico City has a lot of great things, but you cannot really walk, at least not the part of Mexico City where I lived in. So it's very walkable, it's very livable. I lived there for six months and then I moved back to Mexico and started law school and probably halfway in law school, law school is a five-year degree, so year two and a half I took a class, which is called obligations, obligaciones. It's basically civil law.
So basically all types of conflicts you can think that people have: property issues, contracts, "My neighbor won't cut a tree," or "My neighbor's tree jumps into my backyard, what should I do?" So it's those kinds of things. And I really became a super nerd of civil law and especially obligations. And I had this wonderful teacher, Luis Asali. The law school exams are oral exams so you dress up, you just show up to the exam and you're like-
Will Dwyer:
Wait a second, you dress up.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
That's a very lawyer thing, but you dress up for your exam, so you wear a suit and tie. I never understood why, but it's kind of like a law school tradition, I guess. It doesn't make a lot of sense, but people do it.
Sydney Hunt:
Professionalism. Yeah.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
I think it makes you feel like-
Sydney Hunt:
You're legit.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
... like you're cosplaying as a lawyer at that moment. So I went to my exam and I just loved that class, and I read you had to pick one book and there's a lot of obligation books, and I picked one, and then I read it and I was like, "Okay, I want to read another one, another one, another one." So I read the five books that there were. Did really well in the exam, and Luis Asali offered me a position as an intern at his law firm, and I started working there. This was 2016 and basically worked all of my life, all of my professional life at that firm. So eight years at a litigation law firm. When I got there, it was a very small firm, so it was five of us, six of us, and now I spoke with them it's become a really big law firm, over 40 lawyers, and I really enjoyed it. I think it was the greatest job ever, and I'm super grateful for that opportunity.
Will Dwyer:
So I have a question for you. Can you litigate a case for me?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
In Mexico I can. I'm not authorized to practice law in the United States yet.
Will Dwyer:
What about just some counsel right now? 'Cause I have a situation for you.
Sydney Hunt:
Oh, no.
Will Dwyer:
And it's a real one.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
I'm not allowed to give-
Sydney Hunt:
Free legal advice.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
... legal advice.
Will Dwyer:
For free?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Not even for free.
Sydney Hunt:
In general.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
But in general.
Will Dwyer:
Your opinion as a friend.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Okay. I can give you my friend opinion, my friendly advice.
Will Dwyer:
So growing up, I lived in France and my family had a little backyard with a nice tree in it. And one day, and this is a real story, we come back to find that my neighbor, whose name is Rambert, he's a terrible guy.
Sydney Hunt:
Oh, no.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
He has a bad guy name.
Will Dwyer:
He had sawed off with a chainsaw, he had chainsawed off the top of the tree so that it didn't poke above the six-foot fence. And he cited some aesthetic concern of his of "I don't like your tree from my backyard. So I just sawed it so that I can't see." And he did this without permission. So my question to you is, would I win if I brought this to court?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
There's probably a problem with a statute of limitations, so you probably cannot bring a suit anymore.
Will Dwyer:
I know what that means.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
But I mean you would've probably been able to win.
Will Dwyer:
It was devastating. I don't understand how he got away with it.
Sydney Hunt:
Is that why you went into trees and plant work?
Will Dwyer:
That's not why.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
That's like the villain origin story.
Sydney Hunt:
Origin story. Yeah, Exactly.
Will Dwyer:
Maybe everything goes back to that tree.
Sydney Hunt:
Yeah.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Rambert
Will Dwyer:
Oh my God. Anyway, thanks for the advice.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
You're welcome. This wasn't legal advice, by the way.
Will Dwyer:
No, it was-
Sydney Hunt:
This was just a friendly conversation.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
It was just a friendly conversation.
Sydney Hunt:
Exactly. So you mentioned that, yeah, or you just been significantly influenced by a lot of teachers, professors, etc. And I'm curious, I know this little fun fact about you is that you also actually worked as an adjunct professor of law right at ITAM. What was that like going from being the student who was so significantly influenced to being able to teach?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
It was great. It was also a great opportunity to just like design. I was more involved in the designing the coursework and the evaluation process. I wish I taught more because it forces you to keep updated on many things. I think many lawyers just go to law school and then forget about keep on reading. And I think teaching is a great way to do it. I loved the job and I loved the opportunity to have been able to teach in a way, and especially to shape the program. It was also a lot of fun because I could just read the news, especially I helped teach the constitutional law course and I would just read the news for what was going on, and probably draft the syllabus based on that. So that made me spend more time than I would've wanted on Twitter. But at the same time, it was great to link current events with the legal background or the legal perspective. So I also had a great time as that.
Sydney Hunt:
That's beautiful. I feel like it shows how much you care. It's just something I think definitely echoes in the way I've seen you now and all that. But you mentioned that perhaps was a little bit impulsive to choose law at first. Did you have any previous exp... I know you like to argue, you said, and yeah, you say you're not good at math, but I don't believe that.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
I'm terrible at math.
Will Dwyer:
I believe that.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Criminally bad at math.
Sydney Hunt:
No, no, no. Besides maybe your interest in civil law that made you feel like it was the right path what was your experience with the justice system? Had you had any experience with the justice system before? Because I feel like you talk a lot about being a lawyer and the importance of making sure everyone... Like your Imagine A World statement, right?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Yeah.
Sydney Hunt:
Yeah, exactly. I think there's a big jump right from classroom environment to real world setting, and I was wondering if you could talk about that a little bit.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Yeah, absolutely. I'm happy to do that. I always jokingly say that I went to law school because I was bad at math, good at reading and good at arguing. But there's also another component. When I was probably 12, 13 years old, I was a victim of crime in Mexico, so my mom and I, we got mugged and it's not really relevant to the story, but that was my first encounter with the justice system. The first time you go to a police station and realize that nobody cares, you're just another number in the statistic, you're not a victim, you're not a person. And I was really little back then, and literally everyone, public prosecutors, for example in Mexico, they're overworked and underpaid. So you're one more statistic. Nobody even cared to looking into a case.
The only reason we ended up going to report the crime was basically because an insurance issue, because you have to report it in order to collect insurance. The car was stolen, so it made sense to report it, but otherwise, people told us, we've just had the worst day of our lives. You're a kid and you get pointed with a gun, which is a horrible situation and nobody even cares. And nobody's like, "Oh, you want to some M&M's kid?" or something.
Everyone's like, "Yeah, just fill out this report. Yeah, just go home. It's not going to work." And fortunately, nothing happened to my mom and I apart from the car. It's things that sadly happen and happen everywhere. But this is the reality of most people and most cases in Mexico and especially criminal matters, we're talking about homicide, sexual violence, economic crime. It's a generalized issue that 99.9% of all crimes reported in Mexico are never solved. So we have a 99.9% impunity rate.
Again, my case wasn't as bad as other people's cases, but what it shows is that the system isn't working, especially the justice system and especially the criminal justice system isn't working. And I mean we had lawyers, we had access to things. I cannot imagine what people go through without having economic means, without having proper support. I was able to go to therapy afterwards. It's an important episode of my life, but it didn't ruin me. I think it helped shape me in a way. But most people don't have that. Most people either never report the crime because they know the system doesn't work and people don't trust their institutions. Or even if they report the case, you have a 99.9% chance of failure. If I said-
Sydney Hunt:
It's not great.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
... "Get on a plane," and it has a 99.9% chance of falling down, you wouldn't get on a plane, right?
Sydney Hunt:
Right, I hope not.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
I mean, thankfully that's not the statistics, but it's scary. And if you see it from the criminal perspective or people who are committing crimes, you have a 99.9% chance of success. If I said, you have a 99.9% of success if you buy this lottery ticket, I think everyone would do it.
It's a miracle all people in Mexico aren't just robbing and killing each other. It's quite scary, but it's a reality. Back to your question, I think that was one of the key elements that always sparked that sort of attracted me in a way to the justice system. And it also made me unlike or despise injustice in general or when injustices are being committed. I think that was a turning point in my life. And just as a random fact, the first time I, this happened when I was 12, 13, I don't even remember how old I was and I never spoke about it and probably never wrote about it up until my law school application here at Stanford. That was part of my personal essay.
Sydney Hunt:
And how many years after that was that?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
It was.
Will Dwyer:
Can't do math.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
See this is the proof that I cannot do math.
Sydney Hunt:
Oh, no.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Probably 18 years, 16, 17 years after it happened. Hopefully my math-
Sydney Hunt:
I trust your math, I do.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
But a really long time after it happened.
Sydney Hunt:
How did that feel, putting it into words, not only like in voice, but onto paper and then also sent to people who this is their first impression of you as well?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
It really helped me because it allowed me to close a chapter. Just as context we got robbed outside of a bakery, really close to my parents' home and I always for 17 years, I always avoided that place. Every time I passed I would just speed up because I-
Sydney Hunt:
Sure, yes. It's trauma response. Yeah.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Trauma response. And after I sent my application and after I got accepted, I was like, "Okay, time to do it." So I went and bought some bread at the same place.
Sydney Hunt:
Yes.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
So it really helped me-
Sydney Hunt:
Beautiful.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
... close the trauma cycle in a way, and now I'm even talking about it in a podcast.
Sydney Hunt:
I'm honored.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
So I think that's progress in a way. It's a full circle.
Sydney Hunt:
I think that's a of things.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Full circle.
Sydney Hunt:
I'm very proud of you.
Will Dwyer:
Yeah. And Gianny it's really amazing to hear you say all this. I mean, I think I knew this about you as a friend, is just how much care you bring into the relationships that you have with people. I think the two of us in this room can really speak to that, and I'm sure many in the community, in Knight-Hennessy feel the same way. I'm wondering how you reconcile this in the law because clearly you got into law, partly because you wanted to help people, and I'm wondering how you do that in a system that incentivizes efficiency and speed, and is full of people who are overworked and tired and just don't have enough time in the day. So you worked as a lawyer for a while before starting your degree programs here, so I'm wondering if that's something that you were able to bring to the table, or is it just swimming upstream the whole time?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
First of all, thank you so much for those very kind words. I really appreciate them. I consider myself an incredibly lucky person, and I've always had the luck of having people around me, mentors, teachers, supervisors that not only have supported me but have also encouraged me to do other stuff. Nobody likes lawyers. I think we can all agree on that. Lawyers have a really bad reputation globally and especially litigators. We always joked at the law firm and said, "Nobody's happy to see us." You don't call a litigation lawyer because your life is going great.
Will Dwyer:
Or you're having a good day yeah.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Or you're having a good day. You call them because it's like a funeral home. We have business because people have problems, which I mean, guess it's a necessary evil. Happy to discuss more about that. But I was very lucky that the firm where I worked at encouraged me to, for example, take on pro bono litigation.
So I was of course being part of some commercial litigation doing litigation for banks, for example, which is, it's not the most exciting thing or real estate developers. But at the same time, I got to do a lot of pro bono litigation work, and that was incredibly exciting. And the deal was that I could manage both, so I could do some litigation, standard litigation work, but I could also take on pro bono clients. And many times many of my colleagues would refer clients to me for pro bono consultations. And I was very lucky that they allowed me to do that at the firm, not only without the consequence. I kept on having my law firm salary, I still got law firm bonuses, and at the same time I was doing the work that I really wanted to do. I had the work of an NGO lawyer, but the salary of a law firm lawyer.
Sydney Hunt:
That's very nice. Yeah.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
So it was pretty much best of both worlds, and I was really happy with that work, and it allowed me to reconcile this pursuit of justice or my fight or my little fight against injustice in general. Unfortunately and I always say I'm a frustrated criminal attorney because I never practiced criminal law. I've always been interested, but I don't have the experience or I still don't have the experience. I think I would like to get into that because of course it's the most sensitive subjects or probably the most important cases for a society end up being criminal cases and not civil, commercial administrative cases.
Will Dwyer:
What makes you say that? I'm curious. It defines the no-go zones in society?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
In law we usually refer to criminal law as the last option, at least theoretically. Many times, lawmakers who are only lawyers many times just make up things. But in general, the criminal law is for the most severe acts against society. If you want to throw someone in jail, it's a ultima ratio stance. So if you want to throw someone in jail, it's because they've done something that society considers extremely grave or extremely inconvenient, and it poses a threat to that society. And that's why we have a criminal justice system.
Back to your neighbor's example, he was awful, but I wouldn't put him in jail for cutting down the tree. But again, you have other remedies on the civil side that can allow you to get compensation, that can allow you to get some sort of relief from an unlawful act without throwing poor Mr. Rambert in prison. So that's the idea or the rationale behind criminal law and why it's so important. In a society that is as violent as Mexico, you of course need to be very careful with criminal law, and you of course need to be more engaged if you're going to be a criminal attorney.
Sydney Hunt:
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I hear throughout all the different types of law that I'm very happy to be learning about there's so much passion in your voice, and I see even in your body language, I know the listeners can't see you, but your hand gestures, your movement.
Will Dwyer:
He's on the edge of his seat.
Sydney Hunt:
Your body. Yeah, you're literally on the edge of your seat.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
That was a coffee I had before the interview.
Sydney Hunt:
No, but I think in general, when we talk about things you're passionate about, I hear in your voice the love you have for others and even strangers, right? As a lawyer, your clients are strangers. And I wanted to talk specifically, I guess how this ties to your Imagine A World statement. So you mentioned that you're part of this fight, even if it's a little fight against injustice, and your Imagine A World statement is, "I Imagine A World where access to justice is a right for everyone, not a privilege." What does access to justice mean? How would you define that?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
That's a great question and thank you for that. When we talk about access to justice, we're talking about giving people the ability to resolve their disputes peacefully through the court system. If Will took his chainsaw and went against Mr. Rambert, that's not something we want. We want Will to go to the court and take Mr. Rambert to court. That's how after thousands of years of evolution, where we are right now or where we want to be right now.
Unfortunately that's not the case because the court system is not accessible to most people, or the system is might be accessible. For example, Mexico has no judicial costs, so this means that courts cannot charge you anything for their services. The problem is that the courts are still not accessible because the legal system is very complex. It's understandable by people who don't have a law background. And even if you manage to slip yourself into the system, the system is still very inefficient or the system will create lots of obstacles that, for example, time. A normal case might take five, 10 years. You've forgotten about the tree already, or you've taken justice into your own hands and chopped Mr. Rambert's other tree because you lost your hope, your trust in courts.
Will Dwyer:
An eye for an eye.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
An eye for an eye. That's what it means. So of course, I am very focused because we want people to solve their differences because social conflict, unless you live completely isolated in the middle of nowhere, will be a part of your life, either at the supermarket, at your workplace, on the streets, things happen and conflicts happen, and that's normal. I wish there were no conflicts, but that's impossible.
What we want to do, or what I believe in is that people can solve their differences through the court system and not through violence, not through other means, because the court system isn't working, or because the court system is unaffordable, inaccessible for people. So that's what I refer to as allowing people or that I Imagine A World where access to justice is a right. I think right now, unfortunately in many places, I'm speaking about the Mexican case, but I think it's a globalized strength. It's a privilege. It's a privilege if you are able to afford a lawyer. It's a privilege if you're a lawyer yourself. And I think the whole system should be easier to access and it also should integrate the human aspect.
Back to the story, when I went to the public prosecutor's office, there was zero empathy. You don't see empathy in many courts, you don't see empathy in many lawyers, and that just messes up the system, and that just creates resentment and creates mistrust.
If you see a policeman or a policewoman on the street, you want to feel safe. You don't want to feel threatened, you don't want to be anxious. You want to feel reassured because that's what institutions are for. In Mexico, unfortunately, and I think that's a common issue among most Latinos, if you see a police officer on the street, you will not feel safe. You might want to try to avoid it because they might try to extort you because they might try to plant some evidence, for example. So of course you want to create trust so people can, if they're a victim of a crime, they can go to the police. Not that they take a knife and take just on their own hands or don't do anything or accept that "I wasn't lucky, someone stole my phone. There's nothing I can do. Over." I think that's one of the main issues modern societies face.
Sydney Hunt:
Across the world.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Across the world.
Sydney Hunt:
Yeah.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
You don't trust institutions, many people don't understand what institutions are doing. So why should we protect them? And while we face a trend of autocratic rulers and democratic backlash globally, people don't care about the institutions because they're unhappy. And many times they ask, "Well, what has this institution done for us?" We want people to know their institutions, to know what they're doing, to know that they're working, and to be able to feel that they're part of their daily life. I think that that's my secondary Imagine A World statement is basically that people know their institutions, know that they're working and trust them.
Will Dwyer:
I think this is a good segue into maybe the work that you're doing here at Stanford. I'm wondering if you can tell us a bit about your first degree, the LLM, how that was, and also what the heck is an LLM?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
I think they're going to probably rebrand it now with the whole artificial intelligence trend. No, I don't think they're actually considering, but the problem is that you hear LLM and people think about large language model.
Sydney Hunt:
Oh my gosh. Large language model. Oh my gosh yeah.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
So it's always funny when-
Sydney Hunt:
That is so funny.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
... you talk with someone with a CS background and you say, "Oh, I'm an LLM." And they're like, "No, you're not."
Sydney Hunt:
You're a large language model.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
"You're actually a person." That was my dad joke-
Sydney Hunt:
That's so funny.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
... side of the interview. You can cut it.
Sydney Hunt:
I love that.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Hopefully they'll cut it. But no, so the Masters of Law, it's shortened as LLM, and it's basically a program that universities in the U.S. have foreign trained lawyers. So again, we're talking about this distinction between law as an undergrad and law as grad school.
So you basically, in order to do a Masters of Law, you have to be a foreign trained lawyer, and they usually ask for a couple of years of professional experience, and you come to a U.S. law school and are able to take all sorts of classes. So it's basically like the law degree in the United States, the JD Juris Doctor is a three-year degree. As an LLM, you basically get a glimpse of what law school in the U.S. looks like, so you're able to take some 1L classes. So first year, 2L, second year, 3L, third year from the law school with JDs from all three. So it's very intense because it's not even a year. It's nine months, and it's incredible. I loved every minute of it. If you're a lawyer listening to us, please consider it. Please look me up in LinkedIn. I'll be happy to talk about it.
Will Dwyer:
So is it a choose your own adventure, then you get here and you kind of pick your courses based on your interests? Do you have to pick a specialty or something?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Yeah, so Stanford is quite the exception. Most law schools will have a build your own adventure, general LLM degree. Stanford has specialized degrees. So there's an environmental law one, there's a law, science and technology. There's a corporate governance LLM, and there's also an LLM has a weird name about economic law and policy, which everyone refers to as the other degree. So everything that doesn't fit in the first three will fit in the other degree. So arbitration, it's quite fascinating, but it's not as specialized.
And then there's another degree, which is the one I did, which is called SPILS, which is a Stanford Program in International Legal Studies. It's a research-based masters, and it's basically, you are able to take any course you want as long as it aligns with your research. So my research to nobody's surprise was access to justice, which is quite broad. So I was lucky enough to take all the classes I wanted. So I took some constitutional law, I took some AI policy courses. There were some research seminars. So it's incredibly versatile and you can just take all the courses and of course you have to work on an empirical research and then write up your thesis. So that was my academic journey last year. I graduated in June and was able to stay here a little longer because I applied to, while I was on my first year, I applied to the master of public policy, at the School of Humanities and Sciences.
Sydney Hunt:
I'm curious, what made you apply to this program and why specifically this one, how has it been so far? And has anything changed for you since you've started, personal, maybe changes between the two different programs that you've noticed?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
I love the Masters of Law. Had a great time. I really liked the law, and I really liked law schools. If you take into account the undergrad in law and the law masters, I've had six years of law school, which is too much law.
Sydney Hunt:
Plus being a lawyer in the other time.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Plus being a lawyer. But the problem is that, and I think it happens with a lot of lawyers, you are tunnel vision with law, law, law, law, law. And you only think that problems can be solved with law. I have a couple of examples that in Mexico, for example, there's a problem, a crime problem, for example. And lawmakers, which are mostly lawyers, think that how can we solve the problem? Let's just increase the years that people can spend in jail. And they say, "Okay, so we changed the law, and now the problem is gone," and the problem is not gone. The problem is still there. And again, with the structural impunity problem, nobody cares about if you got to go to jail for 300 or 400 years, it's pretty... But this is a real case.
Sydney Hunt:
Oh, really?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Yeah, yeah. It's a hundred percent real.
Sydney Hunt:
What's the point of that?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
To tell people that they're solving the problems.
Will Dwyer:
Crime is in theory, more severe.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
It's more severe.
Will Dwyer:
We still won't catch you though.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
But they don't change anything else. So that's one of the problems. That's one of the things I'm really interested about, how to actually design policies that can have impact and that are serious policies with actual evidence. And I thought that the best way to do it was through a public policy approach. So I applied to the MPP here at Stanford at the School of Humanities. It's a wonderful program. It's super versatile. You're able to take courses from the business school, from the department of economics, from the law school, from anywhere you want, as long as it has a policy related topic. So it's truly remarkable, I'm super, super happy. I'm also very challenged because I was used to law and for law classes you read beforehand, and then you get cold called during class.
Which some people find terrifying. I might find kind of used to. So it wasn't as terrifying. But the moment you start seeing numbers in public policy, that's when I started getting scared. So there's a lot of math. There's a lot of statistics, for example, because they really want you to understand what's going on and being able to verbalize what you see in tables and charts, and how that impacts a decision maker's perspective. So that's what I had in mind, and I'm really, really happy that they accepted me and that I'm doing the MPP. Of course, I'm incredibly grateful to Knight-Hennessy for allowing me to stay here two more years, to be able to hang out with my favorite people who are sitting next to me.
Will Dwyer:
We actually bribed the admissions team. You're welcome. That's a perfect segue. Again, thank you so much. You're such an easy person to interview.
Sydney Hunt:
Yeah, it's been such a great conversation. I'm having so much fun and learning a lot too, so-
Will Dwyer:
Yeah, absolutely.
Sydney Hunt:
... I'm very excited.
Will Dwyer:
Can you speak a little bit about what being a Knight-Hennessy Scholar has been like for you? Because you've added a degree, you've been at Stanford for about half of your tenure now, and I'm wondering what role has Knight-Hennessy and Denning House played in that journey?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
My first idea when I came to Stanford was to apply to the PhD in law. It's called the JSD. It's basically you take your master's thesis and then develop it over four years. So it's like your original thesis with steroids. The reason why I started doubting it was because Knight-Hennessy exposes you to other fields. So again, Sydney to my right, electrical engineering, Will to my left, biology. I never thought I would talk to these people.
Sydney Hunt:
Yeah, same for me. Absolutely.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
You start having these conversations, and you realize that law is important, but it's not the only thing. And we live in a very, very complex world with a lot of problems, and I think those problems cannot be solved with just one approach. And of course, Knight-Hennessy has a lot of programming to have lectures. You have retreats that make you spend time together, but also create in you a lot of interest, a lot of curiosity in other fields and in other areas that you never thought you could experience. And if you're given the chance to explore those fields as a Knight-Hennessy Scholar, another program, I was like, "Okay, I'll take it. It's wonderful. It sounds amazing, so I'll just do it." So to your question, I think I still see myself as a lawyer. I still really like law litigation, but I try to see myself also as a policy analyzer, as someone who can try to understand or try to bring to the table more things than just plain law.
That was a little of my thought process about applying, and of course, how Knight-Hennessy has shaped me. And I think it's right the, I'm in the middle. I'm a year and a half right now, and I still have a year and a half. And I actually was thinking about this this morning. I think I've changed a lot. And I think for the first year I was, uncertainty is a big part of grad school. You don't know what you're going to do afterwards. And I think for the first year, I was very stressed about it, and I was thinking most of the time like, okay, should I add another degree? Which one? Will I get accepted? Will I not get accepted? And suddenly, I think right now I'm at a point when I know uncertainty is part of my life as a grad student, as a young person, as a young professional, but I sort of like the uncertainty at this point.
I think I enjoy it in a strange sense. I still get stressed about it when someone asks like, "Okay, what comes after Stanford?" I'm like, "Oh, that's a great question. I wish I could answer it." But in reality, I think I have a good time just living the present and just learning a lot. And I mean, Knight-Hennessy, but also Stanford has so many resources at your disposal to just find interesting things or meet interesting people. Yesterday I got an email last night that there was going to be a really informal conversation with Brooke Jenkins, which she's the San Francisco District Attorney. So before coming here, I was able to sit down with other 10 people and the SF district attorney and just learn from her. And you have all that, and then you realize, "Okay, well, I don't know what I'm going to do afterwards, but I'm having a lot of fun and I'm learning a lot."
Sydney Hunt:
Yeah. And this morning we tried to get tickets to a Doechii concert, so many things happen.
Will Dwyer:
Oh my gosh.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
That didn't work out.
Sydney Hunt:
Not yet.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Not yet.
Sydney Hunt:
But yeah.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
We'll try again on Friday.
Sydney Hunt:
On Friday, yeah. There's so many opportunities here at Stanford in all aspects of yourself and the parts that you find important and want to elaborate more on.
Will Dwyer:
Yeah, I had a point a second ago, it's slipping my mind, but it'll come back to me. What I wanted to ask you about. Oh, I remember. There we go. I was actually going to say, and this is not that important now that I remember it, that I missed seeing you at lunch, Gianny. I used to run into you at some of our community lunches that we have here at Denning House, and this quarter I feel like I haven't been seeing you as much. So I'm wondering, are you still popping by Denning? And if so, which kind of sub-communities have you gravitated towards in our little Knight-Hennessy community here?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Great. So yeah, I've been actually meal prepping this quarter.
Sydney Hunt:
So healthy.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
That's the reason why.
Sydney Hunt:
So healthy.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
I am trying to eat healthier. They give us a lot of great food here.
Will Dwyer:
Healthier than the salad bar?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
I'm doing some experiments with my-
Will Dwyer:
She's growing. She's growing.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
... with my food. So yes, bear with me a quarter and then I'll just be back for the lunches.
Sydney Hunt:
It's okay. We see you plenty of other time.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
And we still see each other most of the week.
Will Dwyer:
Yes. We live 200 feet away from each other.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
So that also helps.
No, I think Stanford and Knight-Hennessy in general has so many communities I really enjoy. For example, I'm currently the president of the Mexican Association of Graduate Students, and it's from all of the seven schools at Stanford. It's amazing. At the Knight-Hennessy, I'm part of two other groups. The first one is Deep Dive, and I'm with Sanaa, which is also here in the room and Batu and Deep Dive is a forum for getting to know other scholars and great for interviewing, and it's also a great way to build community.
I'm also part of the KH Pride Interest Group, Interest Collective. We haven't organized a community dinner this quarter, but we'll reapply for funds next quarter. And it's also a great way to get to know people, not only from their professional perspectives or academic perspectives, but also from things you share, your sexuality. And also, I think it's great to spend time talking about things that aren't important because a great part of life is just talking about stupid things and having fun. I really enjoy just getting to know people and yeah just enjoying my time here.
Will Dwyer:
And there's no better format for that than free lunch. Right?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Free lunch.
Sydney Hunt:
Yes.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
That definitely is the cherry on top.
Sydney Hunt:
Yeah. I've just learned so much from you, and I admire you a lot. I feel like over the last year and a half, and I can't believe it's already been a year and a half, but you've very quickly, faster than definitely most people do I feel become one of my friends who I feel like if I'm standing on a diving board and I'm afraid to jump into the deep end, you would climb up the ladder and hold my hand and jump with me and into that deep unknown, into the things that could be scary. You've helped me get back into fitness with the F45 classes Gianny got me on.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Those are great, by the way.
Sydney Hunt:
Those are super great.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Shout out the F45 instructors.
Sydney Hunt:
Yeah, that is really great. Yeah, and you've helped me practice my Spanish more, I feel like. Right. My mom was born in El Salvador and I spoke Spanish at home, but when I went to college and then came straight to grad school, there really were no spaces that I guess made the effort to do that. And so this aside tangent for I love you a lot and you're amazing, and I'm so happy-
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Thank you very much. Awe.
Sydney Hunt:
... you are part of KH community and someone I could to spend a lot of time with. But we do have to, as much as I want to talk to you forever, start to wrap up the episode.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Too bad.
Sydney Hunt:
I know.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
I was starting to enjoy this. I actually was having fun.
Sydney Hunt:
I know you took your jacket off. You're getting comfy. Yeah. I also could talk to you for hours and hours, but we're going to transition now into some of our closing questions. And the first one is, what is something that you wish you would've known before you applied to Knight-Hennessy? And I think you had a unique experience where you actually told me that you filled out the application a year before you actually submitted it. And if you want to talk about at that and just general things that you didn't know until you got here either for the good or the worst.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Yeah. Well, I didn't actually fill up the application. I created my account and then opened the application, and I was so intimidated by all the things they ask, all the sections, and I was like, "No, no, this isn't for me." So I closed my laptop and I also postponed my grad school project for another year. And then one year after I created my account, I was like, "Okay, well, it's a really long shot, so yeah, I'll just try it." So I opened again the application. I wish I had known that it's actually not that scary. It's just long and you have to do it in parts. I mean, I figured this out afterwards. It's actually a really enjoyable application in a way, because it allows you to get to know yourself better. And in a way, it also prepares you better for grad school, for your other grad school applications. It's also a great way to let your friends, your family tell you things about yourself.
So there's the improbable facts. There's a lot of things that many times you don't notice or you don't think are interesting or important because they happen to you. And then you ask other people and they're like, "Oh, you remember this time, blah, blah, blah." You're like, "Oh, that's actually something I should put on my application." So I wish I knew it's friendlier than you might expect. If you get it's amazing, of course. But if you don't get it's also a great way to just explore or understand who you are and why are you interested in grad school, or what do you bring to the table? And I think that's super valuable. And it's free to apply to Knight-Hennessy as well, which is also, I understand that many times applications have application fees and it's burdensome for a lot of people. And the Knight-Hennessy application is completely free. So it's also a good way to just understand and get more structure about who you are as a professional academic, just as a student, I guess.
Will Dwyer:
Yeah. I find these applications can be really good exercises in introspection and synthesis. You just end up putting together this coherent narrative about your life, and hopefully it's true. And at that point, you walk away, even if you don't get the thing you applied for, you're like, "Oh, okay. That was helpful."
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Yeah, totally. And just to build on that, what I found was very valuable was just creating that elevator pitch of who you are. That 22nd speech about this is me. I study this, I am very passionate about X, Y and Z. The Knight-Hennessy application allows you to just condense that and have a very good, because of course, the people who design the application are really smart people. It just makes sense.
Will Dwyer:
Yeah, and if that's not sufficient, you can take Stacey's branding yourself workshop for a crash course on how to do just that. So you actually did a two in one here, a two birds, one stone, and you answered advice for prospective applicants. So I think we can go ahead and skip that, and hopefully it's helpful to anyone who's listening to this and thinking about applying to KH. TLDR: You should definitely do it. Believe in yourself.
Sydney Hunt:
Yeah, you got it. All of us were scared, like myself included. I also filled out the application, didn't submit it, and here we are or didn't want to submit it. And then the week before, my friend forced me to press submit because yeah, the chance is low, right that you'll get it, but it's not zero and it's zero if you don't apply.
Will Dwyer:
What's the thing you miss 100%?
Sydney Hunt:
The shots.
Will Dwyer:
Whatever yeah.
Sydney Hunt:
The shots you don't take, yeah.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
No, but I mean, I think it's also, I've never met a Knight-Hennessy Scholar that told me "I knew I was going to get it."
Sydney Hunt:
Yes.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Never.
Sydney Hunt:
Absolutely.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
I'm yet to meet a person in Knight-Hennessy that... Everyone tells you, because I think we all believe that it's impossible, it's super hard, it's very competitive, but in the end, you are able to.
Will Dwyer:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So maybe we can, if you're comfortable with this, we can talk a little bit about some of your improbable facts, which you mentioned were a component of the application. Do you have one or two favorites that you'd like to share with our listeners?
Sydney Hunt:
Well, first, what is an improbable fact and how does it relate to KH?
Will Dwyer:
Oh, I thought we already talked about that. My bad.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
So improbable facts, the way I understood were fun facts, which is not completely true because everyone, and this is something that applicants, when they open the application form, there's no right way or wrong way to fill out the application. The only wrong way to fill out the application is not to submit it. So the way I read it was fun facts, but maybe I got lost in translation, which it could happen. And it's basically things that people wouldn't expect to be true about yourself, but somehow are.
Will Dwyer:
That's how I took it as well. I think there was an opportunity there for it to be perceived as a chance to kind of brag. And I think it's more fun to instead make it fun, right? You want to let your personality shine through this application.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Yeah. I can think about two improbable facts I think are actually funny. The first one is that I once tried to jump out of, well, I actually ended up jumping, but from skydiving, but I fainted, so I don't remember much of my skydiving experience. 300 bucks.
Sydney Hunt:
That's okay. Hey you're-
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
They actually reimbursed me because yes, I was telling like, "No, I don't want to jump." I think everyone who gets to the point of jumping says, "I don't want to jump. I don't want to jump." So the instructors are trained to push you, but I really didn't want to jump. And then they found out I was a lawyer. So they were like, "Yeah, yeah." I didn't have to pay for that. That was a good thing.
Sydney Hunt:
But I think what I should have mentioned, part of my metaphor of saying you would jump off the diving board with me is 'cause I know you have a fear of heights and you can still do that. I was trying to say that you're willing to step outside of your comfort zone for the better of other people, and that's something I really love and admire about you. Sorry, not to interrupt, but yeah. Back to your other improbable facts.
Will Dwyer:
Why would you knowingly put yourself in that situation?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
It's something like-
Sydney Hunt:
Exposure therapy.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
It's like being in the podcast. It's just, I don't know.
Sydney Hunt:
Why not?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Yes. Something I guess you have to do at some point.
Will Dwyer:
Yeah, in the shark tank.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
And I already did it so-
Sydney Hunt:
You're done.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
... no more heights for me.
Sydney Hunt:
No more heights.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
And a fun fact, I laughed a lot, was that I got my first tattoo. At the moment of the application was my only tattoo after losing a bet in the beach. So that was fun.
Will Dwyer:
Which one is that?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
It's an ankle tattoo. It's really basic. It just says Memento Mori. I really wanted to get it and then never actually did it, and then I was in Thailand with some friends and yeah, lost in beer pong. I'm a terrible beer pong player, by the way.
Will Dwyer:
Yeah, the ankle is a safe spot for your first tattoo.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
It's really small.
Will Dwyer:
Yeah, Yeah. Yeah. Okay. One final question for you before we wrap up this amazing pod. Favorite spot on campus?
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
I think most people will say Denning House, but my favorite spot is actually the terrace at Denning House.
Sydney Hunt:
I love the deck. Yes.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
The deck.
Sydney Hunt:
It's so nice.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
It's so beautiful. You get to the lake with no water unfortunately. When we came to our immersion weekend, it was filled with water, but apparently it was because it rained for like six months. So thankfully it hasn't rained that much this quarter and unfortunately the lake is dry. But just being there, the conversations I've had with so many incredible people, sometimes I just go there with my headphones just to read. It's so peaceful, so beautiful. That's my favorite spot.
Will Dwyer:
Great, great answer.
Sydney Hunt:
Absolutely. I would totally agree. And I think it's, yeah, it's where we all met and here we are a year and a half later. So yeah. I want to end on a very happy note and a note of gratitude. Thank you so much, Gianny for taking the time to share your story with us, to talk to listeners about what you're passionate about, what you're doing to make it happen. I feel incredibly lucky to both you, Gianny and Will, that you've welcomed me into your life. Gianny you welcomed us into your childhood home when we came to visit, and it's just one of those things that I never imagined for myself when I was filling out the EEPHD application, better yet, the KH application, and to wake up every day feeling so loved and so cared for, regardless of what we have in common, to be surrounded by people who are so very open to learning more about you, and will jump off the high dive even if they're scared of heights with you.
Yeah, I feel incredibly lucky. So thank you so much to both of you today for being here. Thank you too listeners for making it to the end of this episode. We hope that you enjoyed and that you agree that we need to have a world where access to justice is a right for everyone and not a privilege.
Gianmarco Coronado Graci:
Thank you so much.
Sydney Hunt:
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Imagine A World, where we hear from inspiring members of the KHS community who are making significant contributions in their respective fields, challenging the status quo, and pushing the boundaries of what is possible as they imagine the world they want to see.
Willie Thompson:
This podcast is sponsored by Knight-Hennessy Scholars at Stanford University, a multidisciplinary, multicultural graduate fellowship program, providing scholars with financial support to pursue graduate studies at Stanford while helping equip them to be visionary, courageous, and collaborative leaders who address complex challenges facing the world. Follow us on social media at Knight-Hennessy and visit our website at kh.stanford.edu to learn more about the program and our community.
