Remain open to learning: The foundation for real-world impact
In this alumni episode of the Imagine A World podcast, Eli Cahan (2019 cohort) talks with Abuzar Royesh (2018 cohort), who imagines a world where there is no inequality between developing and developed worlds. Abuzar reflects on how his childhood spent between Afghanistan and Pakistan shaped his worldview, and how his time in the United States as an exchange student sharpened his awareness of global inequality. He recounts how he decided to attend college in the United States and focus on policy, a path that led him years later to Stanford, where he earned two master's degrees: one in international policy and one in management science and engineering.
Resources
- 30 Birds Foundation, the nonprofit Abuzar co-founded in 2021
- How Imagine A World began
Guest
Abuzar Royesh, originally from Kabul, Afghanistan, is pursuing a master’s degree in international policy at Stanford School of Humanities and Sciences and a master's degree in management science and engineering at Stanford School of Engineering. He graduated magna cum laude from Tufts University with a bachelor’s degree in international relations. He aspires to a career in the intersection of technology, development and governance.
He is a co-founder of DataServe, a startup addressing the issue of access to capital for businesses in developing countries. Previously, he worked as a research assistant with the Stanford Internet Observatory and as a senior research associate at Afghanistan Holding Group. He also founded education and leadership projects in Afghanistan for at-risk youth in Afghanistan. At Tufts, he received the Presidential Award for Citizenship and Public Service.
Imagine A World team
Imagine A World's theme music was composed and recorded by Taylor Goss (2021 cohort). The podcast was originally conceived and led by Briana Mullen (2020 cohort), Taylor Goss, and Willie Thompson (2022 cohort), along with Daniel Gajardo (2020 cohort) and Jordan Conger (2020 cohort).
Knight-Hennessy scholars represent a vast array of cultures, perspectives, and experiences. While we as an organization are committed to elevating their voices, the views expressed are those of the scholars, and not necessarily those of KHS.
Full transcript
Note: Transcripts are generated by machine and lightly edited by humans. They may contain errors.
Abuzar Royesh:
I was no different than a lot of those other kids. But then I did get an opportunity to come to the US and continue my education where I did my senior year of high school. I did college and then grad school. And what I often reflect on is how many other people who would've been even a lot smarter than I was or a lot more qualified, who actually didn't have access to the same opportunities. And if they did have, what would be the impact of that on the country, across Afghanistan, Pakistan, and emerging markets? I think that there are a lot of smart, intelligent people who if they were given access to the same opportunities I was given to, that they'd both improve their own lives, but also the lives of other people around them.
My name is Abuzar Royesh. I was a member of the 2018 cohort and I did two degrees in international policy and management science and engineering at Stanford. I Imagine a world where there is no inequality between developing and developed worlds.
Willie Thompson:
Welcome to the alumni edition of the Imagine A World podcast from Knight-Hennessy Scholars. We are here to give you a glimpse of Knight-Hennessy scholars who have graduated and are making a difference in the world through their personal and professional endeavors. In each episode, we talk with KH alumni about the world they imagine and what they're doing to bring it to life.
Today we'll hear from Abuzar Royesh, a member of the 2018 cohort from Kabul, Afghanistan. In this episode, Abuzar shares his experience in a transformative exchange program in Minnesota, dabbling in entrepreneurship, his passion for developing nuanced understandings of local communities and so much more.
Eli Cahan:
Hello, everybody. And welcome back to Imagine A World, Alumni edition, the fun edition. I am here with a very esteemed and close colleague and friend, Abuzar Royesh. Abuzar, thanks so much for joining us on Imagine A World.
Abuzar Royesh:
Thank you, Eli. Thank you for inviting me. My name is Abuzar Royesh. I was a member of the 2018 cohort and I did two degrees in international policy and management science and engineering at Stanford.
Eli Cahan:
Obviously you have quite an interesting background, which we will get into. When you think about equality, what does equality mean to you and how has that shaped from the journey that you took until the point that you got to Stanford?
Abuzar Royesh:
Yeah, absolutely. I was born in Afghanistan. I was only two years old when Taliban took over Afghanistan the first time. This was back in 1996. And at the time, my family became refugees in Pakistan, so I actually lived the first six years of my life as a refugee in Pakistan. And then we moved back to Afghanistan in 2002, right after 9/11 and the US coming to Afghanistan.
For me, a lot of my experiences have been shaped by how I grew up in Afghanistan and in Pakistan, and seeing a lot of the experiences that people have and then transitioning to the US and seeing the disparity in life here, in access to opportunities. And for me, a lot of the work I've done has been trying to bridge that gap, to try to take some of these opportunities that exist here to also extend into people across developing markets as well.
Eli Cahan:
And so when you talk about inequality, what were the things that you were observing during your childhood, the early childhood, and then this period where you were living in Pakistan? Do you remember specific incidents or are there things that stick out in your memory in terms of shaping the way that you thought about equality as you were growing up and before you got to Stanford?
Abuzar Royesh:
Yeah. Actually, for me, I've been reflecting a lot on access to opportunities. When I was growing up, both in Pakistan and then in Afghanistan. I was just one of the millions of kids who at the time were going to school in Afghanistan, for example. And what I saw was that ... In a lot of ways I was no different than a lot of those other kids. But then I did get an opportunity to come to the US and continue my education where I did my senior year of high school. I did college and then grad school. And what I often reflect on is how many other people who would've been even a lot smarter than I was or a lot more qualified who actually didn't have access to the same opportunities. And if they did have, what would be the impact of that on the country across Afghanistan, Pakistan, and emerging markets?
I think that there are a lot of smart, intelligent people who if they were given access to the same opportunities I was given to, that they'd both improve their own lives, but also the lives of other people around them.
Eli Cahan:
Why do you think you got those opportunities and they didn't?
Abuzar Royesh:
I think that I was incredibly lucky. I think that in my path I met a lot of incredible people, mentors, advisors, teachers, instructors who helped me. For example, I was very privileged to go to the first coeducational school in Afghanistan. And through that I learned English. That's how I got accepted to this exchange program to do my senior year of high school in the US. I met a lot of people throughout my journey, who helped me get to the next step of my life. And even now, I have a lot of mentors, a lot of people who've helped me in one way or shape or form, and I'm just incredibly proud and lucky to have had them in my life.
Eli Cahan:
Tell me a little bit more about this exchange program in the US. What was your view of the US as you were growing up? What made you interested in doing this foreign exchange program and then in the weeks leading up to going to the US, were you nervous, were you excited? Where was your brain at that time?
Abuzar Royesh:
I was both very excited but also incredibly nervous. When I was in Afghanistan, I almost had no comprehension of what life would be like in the US, except for what I saw in the movies and-
Eli Cahan:
Which movies?
Abuzar Royesh:
Lots of different movies. I watched 2012, which is the movie about the world ending in 2012. Actually lots of different movies. For me, all of I knew of the US was New York or California. Even when I got accepted, I just had seen schools and colleges through these brochures that I'd see online and I'd see for example, campuses with green grass and the students from all different backgrounds chatting and talking. To me, that was the ideal of what I wanted to experience. So that's all I knew about the US at the time.
When I got accepted to the exchange program ... In the weeks leading up to us arriving in the US. So I was told that I would be placed in Minnesota. And so I actually in the beginning didn't even know that Minnesota was a state in the US. I arrived in the US and I saw that ... It was very different than what I had expected. In a lot of ways it was a lot more normal than I had expected. That was my journey in Minnesota. I really enjoyed my time there. I had an amazing host family, lived with them for a year. I went to school. It was very focused on sciences and agriculture at the time, so very typical Midwestern school. So I went to that and then graduated after a year.
Eli Cahan:
Tell me a little bit more about your experience with your host family and the brochures of America and depictions of America compared to the reality of living in day-to-day in Minnesota, including during the winter, by the way.
Abuzar Royesh:
Yeah. First of all, that Minnesota was extremely cold, but secondly, actually the host family that took me in, they were this incredible Afghan family who had moved to the US back in the 1970s, '80s. So this was when communist had taken over Afghanistan, and so they'd left the country, they resettled in the US. So that was actually part of my experience. In some ways it made it easier because they were Afghan, we shared a lot of the same background, but in some ways it was different than what I had expected because I didn't have the typical American experience.
For example, I'd watched a lot of movies about prom, for example, but I didn't get to go to prom. I didn't have a lot of the typical experiences that a high school student would have because my school was actually about an hour drive away, so I had to take the bus every day and then make sure that I come back with the same bus.
Eli Cahan:
The bus bus didn't run on prom?
Abuzar Royesh:
No, it didn't. But also my family didn't like it that I'd go to prom, my host family. It was quite an interesting experience.
Eli Cahan:
So you do this year in Minnesota, and then what happens?
Abuzar Royesh:
Yeah, so I did a year in Minnesota, and then at the end of the program I did go back to Afghanistan. This was back in 2010. And between 2010 and 2012, I worked in Afghanistan on a project with the US Embassy. It was around access to English language instruction for high school students. And so I ran one of their programs in a local school in Afghanistan. So I did that for about a couple of years, until 2012. And then I came back to the US for undergrad. I did international policy at Tufts.
Eli Cahan:
When you came back to Afghanistan from Minnesota, how do you think you had changed and how did that change at all or shape your professional ambitions that followed, including the work at the embassy and ultimately pursuing higher education?
Abuzar Royesh:
One of the things that I noticed when I arrived in the US was ... In Afghanistan, there's a lot of emphasis in schools on uniformity, as in even the way you dress up, it's uniform. Everybody, we used to wear the same blue shirt, black pants with ... You'd have to cut your hair a certain way, you had to wear black shoes, for example, black socks. And when I came to the US, I saw that there's a lot of emphasis on individual freedom, on exploring your own ambition, on your creativity. And actually that was a very foreign experience to me at the time, but it really helped me actually opened my eyes a lot because that was the first time that I was getting to explore what my interests were, as opposed to what my school was telling me to do. So that was actually a big one.
And then the second one, I think that ... In Afghanistan right after the Taliban, under the new regime there was ... The environment was very ideological in some ways. For example, the way that everybody thought about was that we are all on a mission to improve Afghanistan, to build X, Y, and Z, and everybody's supposed to sacrifice for those ideals. Some of it is I guess the continuation of the socialist ideologies in Afghanistan, but that was actually what the perspective was as a whole. But then when I came to the US, this focus on ... You just need to be the best version of what you want to become. You don't need to necessarily sacrifice yourself for society. You don't need to necessarily do what others tell you. That was quite a big shift in perspective for me.
And so that's why when I went back to Afghanistan ... Typically, in Afghanistan, you'd go to school, and then you'd go to college and maybe a graduate degree. But even for me, being able to take that gap here is in some ways thanks to the experience I had in the US, where I decided that I wanted to take my time to apply to schools. And in the meantime I wanted to work on a project that meant a lot to me.
Eli Cahan:
So then you applied for schools, and tell me about the progression to pursuing higher education and entering higher education with this new mindset that you had cultivated.
Abuzar Royesh:
So for me, I knew I wanted to study international policy when I applied to college. And in 2012, I got accepted to Tufts. I actually applied to quite a number of schools. I'd only gotten accepted to two. Tufts was one of them.
Eli Cahan:
That's better than me. I only got accepted to one.
Abuzar Royesh:
But I really loved my experience at Tufts. For me, I was particularly interested at the time to understand, what were some of the drive of economic development in certain countries and that lack thereof in other countries. And so for me, I thought that international policy would give me a really good basis to study that. So that's why I focused my four years, international policy. I did some economics and statistics classes as well, but primarily my focus was policy.
Eli Cahan:
And you just couldn't find it within yourself to apply to anywhere in the US that was warm. You just had to go back to the tundra.
Abuzar Royesh:
I have an affiliation with cold places, and we'll probably talk about some of the work we've done in Canada as well. But now I work in Nigeria, which is a pretty warm place.
Eli Cahan:
Indeed, indeed, indeed. So you do this international policy and degree. I can only imagine it has you thinking about even more pathways to equality and inequality at the global stage. The role that policy, legislation, regulation, multi-partite organizations, individual governments can play in fostering environments of equality and inequality. Eventually you make it to Stanford, where we have the opportunity to meet through Knight-Hennessy. Tell me a little bit about the journey ending up to do your graduate degree at Stanford, and then what was your experience at Knight-Hennessy?
Abuzar Royesh:
Yeah, so I graduated from college in 2016. I actually returned to Afghanistan. My dream was always to work in the intersection of policy and tech and data. And when I returned to Afghanistan for a couple of years, I worked in a local consulting firm. So we did a lot of research projects with the Afghan government, with UN, with World Bank, with GIZ, with USAID. So we did a lot of different types of research projects across the country, and that's actually what made me particularly interested to explore higher education and intersection of technology and governance. So that's why I applied at Stanford.
I always wanted to pursue entrepreneurship in one way or another, and obviously Stanford is a place. And what I liked about Stanford was that ... I remember there was a policy program, but then you can take classes across the different schools at Stanford. And that was one of the things that really appealed to me because I had a policy background. What I wanted was to interact with people from across different programs. And in fact, when I actually learned about the Knight-Hennessy program, that's one of the major sticking points to me. I loved the fact that it would bring together students from across different disciplines.
In the beginning I didn't think I'd get accepted. I applied, and then went through the rounds of interviews. I remember the immersion weekend, just coming and just being at both Stanford as a school, but also all the other people who attended immersion weekend. And then thankfully I got accepted and my experience at Stanford was shaped quite a bit by Knight-Hennessy. I'm incredibly grateful for that opportunity.
Eli Cahan:
Yeah. Tell me how you think it was shaped by Knight-Hennessy. Tell me how the programming that you were experiencing through Knight-Hennessy supported your education and perhaps added to your education in ways that were distinct from the coursework that you were taking both in your program. And then of course, as everybody knows at Stanford, the big dirty secret as you said, is you take whatever the heck you want. So the coursework you were taking outside your program.
Abuzar Royesh:
Typically, in a lot of grad schools, your community is limited to the program that you study. At Stanford, what I really enjoyed was that through Knight-Hennessy, I get exposed to students from all the different schools. In fact, I have a lot of close friends across the different schools. And what that enabled us to do was to just chat about ideas, about similarities, about differences in the way that we saw the world, but also a lot of the opportunities of what we could do together, for example. I'm incredibly grateful for that. Also, besides that, Knight-Hennessy brought together a great group of mentors. I'm still in touch with some of them and-
Eli Cahan:
Anyone in particular who comes to mind.
Abuzar Royesh:
Back in the days we had a lot of programming where we met, for example, Phil Knight or Jerry Yang or lots of other people. And just hearing their stories and how they started what they started. I think that was pretty inspiring for me. I had no idea about venture backed, for example, entrepreneurship before coming to Stanford. That was the first time that I actually got exposed to those ideas. I always knew I wanted to do something in the intersection of governance and data science policy, but I just didn't know what were the different available paths to me. I think that Knight-Hennessy, in a lot of ways opened my eyes to those different paths.
Even in fact, I met my first co-founder through Knight-Hennessy. Ola, he was from your cohort, 2019. In the beginning we started chatting about his background and my background and the work we've done. Saw a lot of similarities in the way that we saw opportunities for developing emerging markets. And so I am grateful Knight-Hennessy for making that introduction.
Eli Cahan:
It seems like Ola is everybody's first co-founder. We'll make sure ... When I can find him, we're going to have him on the podcast. But I do remember there was a trip that we took a number of people in our cohort to Napa over one weekend, and Ola was so busy working that he basically ... He'd play one round of Super Smash Bros. And then he would disappear for an hour and a half. He'd reemerge for another hour and then disappear. Certainly what the two of you were building at the time was something incredibly valuable.
I want to hear a little bit more about what the two of you were building and tell me about the work you've done since leaving Knight-Hennessy, and then we can get into some of the conversation around lessons learned and how you think that work that you're doing today was shaped by your experience.
Abuzar Royesh:
So I graduated from Stanford in 2021. I had two co-founders from Stanford. One was Ola, another one was someone from GSB and we wanted to build software for small businesses in emerging markets to help them digitize their operations. So we built different software from bookkeeping, to invoicing receipts to ... Later on we even launched financial services. So the goal was that ... There are a lot of small businesses. Now, there's quite a high penetration of mobile smartphones in emerging markets, and through the use of smartphones and internet, we could digitize a lot of their businesses to help them grow.
So that was the work that we did. We did that between 2021 and 2023. Unfortunately, it didn't work out, so we had to shut it down. But during those two years, we built quite a bit of software. We talked to a lot of small businesses, and overall learned a lot in the process.
Eli Cahan:
Yeah. What do you think you learned, and then how did that carry into the work you're doing now?
Abuzar Royesh:
I think that I got a better appreciation of the nuances of different markets and also how a lot of the ideas that we have when we were, for example on Stanford campus, don't necessarily apply when you're in real world. When we were building the startup in Africa and in Nigeria, and even now. A lot of what I had done was to unlearn a lot of what I had learned at Stanford about how building a company or a venture actually works.
For me, that's been quite a bit of learning. Also, what I learned was, there's actually a lot of impact that can be had when you're working on issues in developing markets because there are a lot of age-old problems that are there, and it effects all of the different economies, and there are a lot of solutions that you can build that can have actually very profound impact. Whereas I think that if you were to do the same thing in a developed market, the impact would be a lot more limited.
For us now, after '23, when we shut down. What we were working with small businesses on, so I've been working on building fraud detection, so real time fraud detection and anti-money laundering solutions for banks. What we've seen is that there's actually quite a bit of need for this software for banks and fintechs because now a lot of the people on the continent, they're opening bank accounts, they're accessing financial services for the first time. But a lot of the solutions that banks have access to right now are western solutions. So they're not really built for the purpose of the market.
So if you think about, for example, fraud detection. A lot of the fraud detection software that you see is trained on card data, for example, because in US, Europe, most of the transactions are card-based. But in Africa, there's mobile money, there is a lot of cash-outs, there's direct bank-to-bank transfers. So when you have, for example, a machine learning-based model for fraud detection in the US, it does not work well in the context of Nigeria. So that's why there's a lot of need for that and a lot of the infrastructure around trust and fraud detection onto money laundering, that's what actually builds trust for the country to come online. To trust the financial institutions that they can put their money in there and also leverage other financial services.
Eli Cahan:
When you talk about using language, you actually can make a difference working in developing countries. You sound surprised almost by that insight, as if there were a time where it felt like you could only make a difference by working in developed or wealthier countries. Can you say a little bit more about why coming to that realization that you can make a difference in developing countries, why that was so formative for you and why ... To me, you sound a little surprised by that discovery.
Abuzar Royesh:
Yeah. So I was surprised, but not in the way you described. So when I was based in Afghanistan, I saw that there were a lot of efforts by, for example, US and other western countries to implement a lot of projects in Afghanistan. And often what I saw was that they lacked the nuances of the local communities. So that's why actually a lot of the US interventions actually failed in Afghanistan. And that was actually a very formative experience for me. What I realized was that you need to have a very deep understanding of a culture, appreciation for the culture to be able to play a role.
And so for me, when I was actually starting in Nigeria, what I thought about was that I was actually that foreigner going into the new context, trying to build a solution there. And so in that I had to spend quite a bit of time first learning about the culture, building an appreciation for the culture, really understanding the nuances of the market and then building a solution.
And so for me, my surprise and the level of impact comes from the fact that even though I took ... And still I'm learning a lot about the context, I'm still able to ... I believe that we are building solutions that are being helpful. And so for me now, the insight is that you are able to actually have a very positive impact as long as you're open to learning, as long as you're open to really understanding the nuances of the culture that you're trying to go into and not really trying to impose your preconceived notions of what that country is like or what the culture is like. Or what solutions are needed in that context.
Eli Cahan:
Yeah. Yeah, that seems like such an important insight, an insight that feels very theoretical until you're looking at a machine learning model and you say, "Oh, my God. All of my training data doesn't apply, none of this model is generalizable at all to this new context," And you've just straight jacketed your model to perform systematically well in one context. It seems like a quite literal version of thinking through why local context matters. Training models are doing any other work you might be doing. It seems like a heck of a moment to be thinking about providing liquidity to developing countries. Certainly there are lots of major federal policy changes in the US and in other countries that mean that tons of money that used to be available to these countries no longer exist. There are lots of conversations in some of the wealthier countries that used to be donor countries about the importance of nativism and national politics. There's lots of conversations in developing countries about the importance of developing their own systems of financing and sustainability.
Can you talk a little bit more about why you think this work is important in general, in terms of bringing these countries online in their own way in this moment, as well as why you think discussion around fraud, which has been such a Bogeyman both in developed and developing nations is an important thing to focus on right now as you think about providing equality of opportunities across the world?
Abuzar Royesh:
Absolutely. So I think there are two major trends that help with exactly what you mentioned. On the one side, you have the reduction and amount of foreign aid that goes into developing countries. And on the other side is actually globalization. So both of them actually play a big role in underscoring the importance of building local solutions that comes from emerging markets. So for example, Nigeria, up until this year. They were actually on the FATF grey list, so that's why that would actually ... That meant that there was a decreased amount of liquidity and financing that could flow into Nigeria.
Thankfully, this year, the country had taken a lot of measures to implement anti-money laundering measures, et cetera, to now get off the grey list. But Africa is globalizing it, both within the continent, but also across. There's a lot more increased trade between Africa and for example, China or Europe or other countries. And because of that, you need that infrastructure that enables for these transactions to take place, which is anti-money laundering, fraud detection, et cetera. That's number one.
And then the second one is even with ... For example, the dismantling of USAID and the reduction in the amount of foreign aid that goes to these countries, what that highlights is the importance of each of these countries trying to build native solutions, so that they can compete in the global market. Right now, if you think of most emerging markets, they're consumers of software of solutions that are built typically in China or Europe or US. As time goes on, that will only increase the inequality gap between the developed and the developing countries. And that's why it's actually important to have solutions that actually come out of the emerging markets that both resolve the needs of the emerging markets, but at some point, hopefully, where developing countries can export those solutions to the developed countries as well.
And so that's why there's a need. Both of those different trends actually highlight the need to build local solutions for these economies.
Eli Cahan:
Of course, beyond this work, you are also very actively involved in non-corporate work, thinking about foundations and one foundation that I've known for ages that you've been very involved with and one that does an incredibly fascinating and inspiring scope of work is 30 Birds. Can you talk a little bit about what 30 Birds is and how you've been involved with that organization?
Abuzar Royesh:
Yeah. So in 2021 when ... This was just after I graduated from Stanford, I graduated in June, July and Afghanistan fell to the Taliban in August. So my family at the time were stuck inside Afghanistan. So this was all my family members, my mom, dad, my siblings. Even all our extended family members. So my dad had actually started the first coeducational school in Afghanistan. That's the school that I mentioned I had attended. There were a lot of threats against the school, even before the Taliban takeover. There were actually a number of suicide attacks that targeted schools. My dad's name was on a hit list. And because of that ... So we knew that we had to evacuate my family out of the country.
So in 2021 in August when the country fell, I worked together with a number of friends of the school and even friends of myself actually from Stanford. And we all got together and helped evacuate my family out of Afghanistan. And so right after evacuating my family, we evacuated about 450 people out of Afghanistan. Most of them were schoolgirls. Among them, there were about 80 girls that were completely unaccompanied girls between the ages of 15, 16, and 25. Who we managed to evacuate out of Afghanistan and later resettled them in Canada. And so that's been also one of the things that I've been involved with since 2021.
Now, that effort has become institutionalized in the form of 30 Birds Foundation, and we're really lucky to have a very strong executive team and also a board that supports the mission of the organization. And now as a part of that, we are both helping build leadership and empowerment programs for the girls that we've evacuated, but also we offer educational and leadership programs to girls who are still inside Afghanistan. And so I'm very proud to be a part of that effort as well.
Eli Cahan:
Yeah. Why the focus on girls in particular?
Abuzar Royesh:
The focus on girls, because they are the most marginalized group in Afghanistan. As you know, since 2021 now. Taliban have banned girls' education. Girls cannot attend schools beyond sixth grade. They cannot work. They can't find any jobs. And because of that, you have half of the population that basically has no hope for the future. And that's why it's important to keep hope alive for that population and to empower them so that they can be part of the transformation, eventual transformation of the country in the long run.
Eli Cahan:
Yeah, as we speak, I'm trying to remember. I seem to recall it was This American Life, but there was an amazing podcast episode. I forget which show it is. We'll find it, we'll put in the show notes about a girl in particular, who I think was evacuated from Afghanistan, who spoke about her journey. It's hard not to be in awe of the work that 30 Birds and that you do, and frankly not to be in awe of these young women themselves, once you listen to any of their testimonies about what they've been through.
I'm curious, as you think about your professional work at Pastel, the company through which you're doing this anti-money laundering work, as well as your philanthropic and altruistic work through 30 Birds and other organizations. How do you think that Knight-Hennessy shaped you doing what you're doing now? And when you talk about unlearning the things that you had to learn in class, do you think that Knight-Hennessy set you up to have the cognitive adaptability or flexibility to think through and rethink what you had learned in the classroom to apply it to the real world setting?
Abuzar Royesh:
For me, I am thankful to Knight-Hennessy and the Stanford community as a whole for both my experiences at Pastel and also at 30 Birds Foundation. Like I mentioned, when we started 30 Birds Foundation, actually I met the person who's now the executive director of the program, Justin Hefter. I met him through Jeff Wachtel actually. So Jeff introduced us, he said that we should connect Justin. His background was in evacuating human rights activists from conflict zones. So he had worked in Libya, in Somalia and Sudan in a number of other countries before we met. And in 2021, when we needed help, Justin really stepped up and now he's the executive director for 30 Birds Foundation.
One is those networks and connections that were created. And as a whole, Knight-Hennessy was very supportive, especially in 2021 when the Taliban took over. They were supportive in terms of the mission of what we're trying to accomplish. Even in the evacuation. For example, I reached out to a lot of my Stanford professors, a lot of Knight-Hennessy, for example, advisors. All of them played a role in one way or another. So that's one.
And then the second part of it is a lot of what I have learned. I think for me, one of the things that I learned from Stanford, and particularly Knight-Hennessy, is that it just takes a few small steps to start a movement. You see it through the stories of a lot of people who are a part of for example, Knight Hennessy, but also the Stanford community in general. You have a lot of people who've started companies, non-profits, movements, et cetera. All it takes is basically, knowing that you in your small way can actually make a difference.
Initially when I started 30 Birds, for example. The thought was not that ... I didn't imagine it evolving into what 30 Birds is now. At the time, it was about getting my family out. When my family got out, it was about, can we help these girls who are left behind, for example? And slowly what I learned was that once you start something like that, there are a lot of incredible individuals who will gather around that mission to help it. Obviously the work of 30 Birds or even Pastel would not have been possible without the amazing people that I've met along the way.
What I appreciated about Knight-Hennessy, in particular, that there were leadership programs where we talk about leadership in real world, and sometimes how what you learn in academia is not necessarily what happens out there. And to me, that perspective was incredibly supportive. But even that feeling of empowerment where you as an individual, you both have the power to and the responsibility to take action when the moment calls for it. I think that's been a major takeaway for me from Knight-Hennessy and Stanford,
Eli Cahan:
Especially if you live in a world of inequality and you've been blessed with privilege.
Abuzar Royesh:
Exactly.
Eli Cahan:
If you were to pick one skill or one adjective to describe how Knight-Hennessy shaped who you are now, what would that skill or adjective be?
Abuzar Royesh:
I think I'd say empowerment. I think that Knight-Hennessy really empowered me to think bigger, to think about ... Even the whole premises of Knight-Hennessy is that they want to enable you to study any major you want to study at Stanford, so that you can work on research projects, on ideas that you care about without worrying about the financial side of things. And for me, I think that's been a big part of Knight-Hennessy, where it has empowered me to think about, what is the impact that I'd like to have? Even if that's in a small way. I'm deeply appreciative for that. I think that at Stanford, I got the feeling that there's no idea that's too big, or there's no initiative that cannot be started. And to me, that was an incredibly empowering feeling.
Eli Cahan:
I love that, that there's no idea that's too big. I think many people have heard, probably in a pejorative sense, this Silicon Valley ethos of ask for forgiveness, not permission. While there are horror stories of things gone terribly wrong because people maybe moved too fast or moved without a foundation. I think the ability to feel empowered as a young person to try to tackle the world and tackle big ideas that will change the world is something that I know I have felt. And through many conversations with our colleagues, many people have felt that they can be propelled into the world. Even as a young person can be visionary in their hopes and ambitious in their dreams in a way that ... Having all of us spent time at other institutions and especially academic institutions, it does feel like there's a certain level of restraint perhaps that is imposed on people elsewhere.
Abuzar Royesh:
I actually have an anecdote to share here. So initially when we evacuated my family, they left Afghanistan They went to Qatar and Germany, arrived in a military camp in Virginia until they got settled, but for the group of Afghan girls that we were evacuating ... So initially we just evacuated them to Pakistan. We just took them through the land border, which was a whole story on its own, but we got them to Pakistan. We didn't know where they'd end up next. So we had no idea where these girls could actually go after Pakistan because obviously they couldn't stay in Pakistan for a long-term anyways.
But during that time, we connected with the government of Ecuador, who actually offered resettlement visas. We connected to the government of Rwanda, who also took in a number of Afghan refugees. Even with the Canadian government. So when we reached out to them, they were open, even though the girls had no association with Canada before this. They were just regular school girls. But in that moment, what I realized was, we were out of desperation, we were just trying to reach out to anybody we knew. But because of the mission of the program, there were so many incredible people from Rwanda, from Ecuador, from Canada, who actually stepped up.
The idea is that there are actually a lot of people who are willing to help, but you just need to give them a pathway to offer that help. That's why for us ... We didn't end up resettling the girls in Rwanda or Ecuador, but I'm incredibly thankful to the governments of both countries and also especially to the government of Canada, who ultimately did take in the girls. For us, we just made the ask. We thought that a 100% it would be rejected. Why would a country like Canada take in 450 Afghans with no prior association to Canada? But all it took was asking, making the request, making a case for why we were doing this, and it came through.
Eli Cahan:
Yeah, I know a lot of students, young journalists ask me for advice, and one of the first things I tell them is, just send that email. Just go to that place, just drive. And it always amazes me what can happen just from showing up.
Abuzar Royesh:
Even for us, during the evacuation efforts, we had people from the highest levels of Department of Defense, from the Department of State. We had four-star generals, US generals, who just respond to our emails. Asking them for help. So many members of the US Congress, both House and Senate. Lots of incredible people who stood to help, even a lot of countries in the Middle East and Europe who just offered to help in any way they could. So the advice of just reach out, you never know who's willing to help, is definitely the right one.
Eli Cahan:
Do you think that was a Knight-Hennessy thing that taught you to just get out of your own way and send that email?
Abuzar Royesh:
Yeah, in some ways. For example, our contact at Department of Defense was one of my Stanford professors, and he ultimately was very helpful in getting some of the documentation that we needed for my family to leave the country. There were a lot of contacts from Stanford, but also just the idea that even people at that highest levels of, for example, government or regular people who are trying to help, who are open to finding a way to help and that you just need to make the ask.
Eli Cahan:
Let's move into our popcorn segment here. This is one of my favorite segments of the alumni podcast, and the first question that I have for you is, who was your favorite King Global Leadership series speaker? Is there somebody you remember coming in that you recall as being influential or molding you're thinking even a little bit?
Abuzar Royesh:
Actually, a number. For example, I really enjoyed ... We had a session with Mohammad Al Samawi, who was the guy who was evacuated out of Yemen, I believe, and he resettled in the US. Started an interfaith program in the US. There were sessions with Michael McFaul, where we talked about US foreign policy. We had a lot of sessions on leadership. All of them played a role in some way.
Eli Cahan:
Yeah. What was your favorite Knight-Hennessy trip that you went on?
Abuzar Royesh:
So I went on one, but it definitely was my favorite. We went to South Africa. That was a great experience.
Eli Cahan:
We were there together.
Abuzar Royesh:
Yes, exactly.
Eli Cahan:
What was your favorite Denning House snack?
Abuzar Royesh:
My favorite Denning House snack. Definitely the kombucha.
Eli Cahan:
You're the second person to say the kombucha. And if you had to pick one scholar to get stranded on a desert island with, who would it be and why? And there's no Wi-Fi.
Abuzar Royesh:
There's no Wi-Fi. I think I'd say Ileana because she's very resourceful.
Eli Cahan:
Ileana Pirozzi?
Abuzar Royesh:
Exactly. I think so.
Eli Cahan:
Yeah. Why do you think she'd be good on a desert island?
Abuzar Royesh:
I think she would be very resourceful. She takes a lot of initiatives. She's very bold. Yeah.
Eli Cahan:
She is bold. She is bold. We will have her on the podcast. We're trying to track her down. We're sitting in New York City now. We're trying to track her down. It sounds like she's on the road, but we will get her on the podcast and we'll see if she wants you as her partner on a desert island, or if she chooses someone else. Last question that we always ask, what advice do you have for prospective scholars and future applicants to Knight-Hennessy?
Abuzar Royesh:
I think my major advice would be to start the program with an open mind. We have a lot of preconceived notions and ideas, and when we go to a new program, we take them with us. But I think that there's just such an incredible diversity of perspectives and ideas and people at Knight-Hennessy and at Stanford that I think we'd be remiss if we didn't actually listen to them and hear their perspective. So I think just being open to different perspectives, even if they're sharply contrasting with what you think or what you believe about the world. I think that that'd be my biggest advice.
Eli Cahan:
Amazing. Well, Abuzar Royesh. Innovator, humanist, very handsome man. Thank you so much for coming on the Imagine A World, Alumni Edition. To our listeners, thank you for tuning into this episode. We will be back in your headphones in the not too distant future. Thanks for joining us.
Abuzar Royesh:
Thank you, Eli, for inviting me. Such a pleasure.
Willie Thompson:
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Imagine A World, the alumni version, where we hear from inspiring graduates of the Knight-Hennessy community, who are making significant contributions in their respective fields. Challenging the status quo, and pushing the boundaries of what is possible as they imagine the world they want to see.
This podcast is sponsored by Knight-Hennessy Scholars at Stanford University, a multidisciplinary, multicultural graduate fellowship program, providing scholars with financial support to pursue graduate studies at Stanford, while helping to equip them to be visionary, courageous, and collaborative leaders who address complex challenges facing the world. Please follow us on social media at Knight-Hennessy and visit our website at kh.stanford.edu to learn more about the program and our community.
