Trust, transparency, and transformation
In this episode of Imagine A World, a podcast by Knight-Hennessy Scholars, Willie Thompson (2022 cohort) interviews Rachel Desch (2023 cohort) who imagines a world where trusted institutions and leaders are able to mitigate violent conflict and inspire innovative policymaking. Rachel is a second-year master’s student in international policy. Before coming to Stanford, she spent nearly a decade working in the federal government.
Rachel describes how her upbringing on a military base and wide-ranging academic background have fueled her commitment to building trust in government, adopting holistic approaches to conflict resolution, and potentially running for public office. She highlights the “start-up culture” pockets within government where mission-driven work thrives, and shares other personal interests.
Guest
Rachel Desch (2023 cohort), from Fayetteville, North Carolina, is pursuing a master’s degree in international policy at Stanford School of Humanities and Sciences, where she will focus on governance and development. Rachel graduated from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (UNC) with majors in peace, war, and defense, and economics. While pursuing her undergraduate degree, she interned with the U.S. State Department in Riga, Latvia, and the Institute for Defense and Business.
Since graduating from UNC, Rachel has worked on a variety of national security issues within the U.S. government, including deploying to the Middle East. Most recently, she served as a policy adviser at the National Security Council, focusing on legislative affairs. Following her studies at Stanford, Rachel hopes to integrate international development, conflict resolution, and stabilization into U.S. and global policies toward counterterrorism. Rachel is a black belt in taekwondo, an amateur soccer player, and an avid reader.
Imagine A World team
Imagine A World's theme music was composed and recorded by Taylor Goss (2021 cohort). The podcast was originally conceived and led by Briana Mullen (2020 cohort), Taylor Goss, and Willie Thompson (2022 cohort), along with Daniel Gajardo (2020 cohort) and Jordan Conger (2020 cohort).
Knight-Hennessy scholars represent a vast array of cultures, perspectives, and experiences. While we as an organization are committed to elevating their voices, the views expressed are those of the scholars, and not necessarily those of KHS.
Full transcript
Note: Transcripts are generated by machine and lightly edited by humans. They may contain errors.
Rachel Desch:
Although it is this big bureaucracy at times, I think there are really amazing pockets within it where there is a lot of innovative thought and a bit of honestly start-up culture in terms of people really centering around the mission and trying to do what they can to advance mission goals. Hi, I'm Rachel Desch. I'm a member of the 2023 cohort and a second-year student in the Master's in International Policy Program. I imagine a world where trusted institutions and leaders are able to mitigate violent conflict and inspire innovative policymaking.
Sydney Hunt:
Welcome to the Imagine A World podcast from Knight-Hennessy Scholars. We are here to give you a glimpse into the Knight-Hennessy Scholar community of graduate students. Spanning all seven Stanford schools, including business, education, engineering, humanities, law, medicine, and sustainability. In each episode we talk with scholars about the world they imagine and what they are doing to bring it to life.
Willie Thompson:
Today we've got Rachel Desch, a second-year international policy master's student. During our conversation you'll hear Rachel's experience growing up on the military base, choosing a career in government, organizing trips to Coachella, and so much more. Hey, what's up, y'all? Welcome to another episode of the Imagine A World podcast. I am your host for today, Willie Thompson. I'm a member of the 2022 cohort of Knight-Hennessy Scholars. I finished an MBA at the Graduate School of Business and now I'm doing a Master's in Policy, Organization, and Leadership Studies at the Graduate School of Education. And today I have a very special guest, as you heard at the top of the episode, Rachel Desch. Let's just get right into it. Rachel, how are you doing?
Rachel Desch:
I'm doing well. It's crazy that it's already week six.
Willie Thompson:
Don't remind me, okay. It's nearing the end.
Rachel Desch:
Yeah, I think two years has flown by really quickly.
Willie Thompson:
We're coming up on the end of the quarter. What are you looking forward to with regards to end of quarter? What's the end of a school year like at Stanford for folks who are less initiated?
Rachel Desch:
I feel like spring quarter is rough in terms of you've had three quarters back to back of a lot of really quick information. And I came from more of a semester system where you have a bit more time for each class. And I think I love at Stanford you're able to really learn a lot about many different things in a short amount of time, but it means you're also really saturated with information. So, now the midterms are kicking up, final projects are kicking into gear and trying to get everything into a good spot to close out.
Willie Thompson:
For sure. I am also from a school that had a semester system, and I think the quarter system was a huge adjustment for me, because of how fast things move and you blink and it's like week four, then week four you have a midterm, whereas at least in a midterm, in a semester system, I don't don't know if you felt this way, I felt I could coast the first couple of weeks and kind just be like, "Okay, yeah, sure there's a thing down the road I need to finish." But it's like if you mentally coast in a quarter system, you really pay for it by the time you're back on shore, right?
Rachel Desch:
Yeah. I feel like I've had some classes where by week three you already have your first midterm, and it's like, "I just started learning this a few days ago."
Willie Thompson:
Right, right. It's definitely a unique place. You said you're being inundated with a lot of information right now in the spring quarter. What are some of the classes that are really intellectually stimulating?
Rachel Desch:
I think this quarter is interesting, because I'm taking some classes that are a little more outside my normal courses. I'm taking a class on global project finance as someone who does not have any financial background. And we also are in the midst of our six-month international policy capstone. Over spring break I was lucky enough to travel to Ghana to do some field work. And just really integrating into another community and getting to know, get really deep into a topic.
Willie Thompson:
It's really unique when you have those opportunities to actually go out and do the field work and meet people who your research and your work is affecting. Reminds me of Courtney Burton talking about a trip she went on for designing for extreme affordability. I think she went to Costa Rica, but there's nothing sort of bridging the classroom experience with the experiences with people on the ground that really, I think solidifies the learning and prompts a lot of reflection.
Rachel Desch:
Yeah, I think that's something I love about Stanford is the amount of project-based classes we have here. And generally, I think just the design school ethos that is starting to permeate across the university of human-centered design, and being really intentional with how you engage with communities and build solutions that actually are addressing what the limitations are, versus imposing ideas.
Willie Thompson:
Absolutely. Well, I know we're going to get into a lot of this. I just wanted to know what your spring quarter was like in terms of a course load, because yeah, like spring quarter, you blink and you're at the end of the quarter. I think we have, there's no break in this quarter with fall quarter you have Thanksgiving, and then you have spring break between the two quarters in the winter and spring, but once you get back it's all gas, no brakes.
Rachel Desch:
It is.
Willie Thompson:
We're going to get this started as we get all episodes started off, which is getting to know a little bit more about you, so you have an Imagine A World statement there. A lot of different ways I want to take it, especially considering the world we're in right now, but I will save that for now. And before we talk about the world you imagine, I want to talk about the world you're born into and the world you've experienced thus far. Where are you from, and what was your journey here to Stanford?
Rachel Desch:
I grew up in Fayetteville, North Carolina, which is a multicultural community in terms of it's home to one of the largest military bases in the world.
Willie Thompson:
Fort Bragg.
Rachel Desch:
Fort Bragg, Fort Liberty, now Fort Bragg again, so-
Willie Thompson:
Noted.
Rachel Desch:
Yes. My dad was in the military, and so I kind of grew up with that background of seeing a family member in military service. And my mom is Polish, so I also grew up in a multicultural household in terms of most of my maternal family still lives in Europe and Poland and Germany and my dad's family are here in the U.S. I think in Fayetteville, in addition to just having this really large military base, the town really revolved around that community in terms of the military was the largest employer, followed by the health system and the public education system. So, in some ways, looking back and reflecting, I think public service has been the main careers that I saw when I was being raised. And something that drove my desire to keep working in that space. Growing up, I also didn't live extremely close to any other of my family members, and I think as folks in the military community attest to, your coworkers, your neighbors, your friends really become that family for you.
And so, I think that really gave me a lot of appreciation for how to build community and create these relationships that really will support you in times of need. Growing up, for example, I was a child of 9/11 in terms of it was a big impact in my life. More so, I think also because coming from a military community, we already had, our parents were deployed overseas quite a bit, and then from 2001 onward, I think in every class I had growing up there was at least one person whose parent was deployed. People who maybe didn't see their family members for months to years at a time. And I thought that was quite normal. And so coming when I went to a UNC in college, I think it was really stepping outside of that military bubble and realizing that that's really not the norm, but really appreciating I think the value that growing up in such a community provided.
Willie Thompson:
Yep. One question for you about that before we ... Because I feel I was going into getting to UNC, which I know we'll talk about then probably Stanford as well. What effect did that dynamic have on you in terms of your upbringing, the notion of a parent being away for a period of time? And you mentioned it was quite normalized, but I'm wondering to what degree you've sort of reflected on that and considered how that shaped you and your upbringing?
Rachel Desch:
In a bigger picture it made international relations seem really close to me in terms of sometimes, I think sometimes you can feel like what's happening across the world doesn't really impact you. And in some way we were all really attuned to what was happening outside of the U.S., because it would determine our own interactions with our community and then kind of expectations. In some ways it also normalized having more international experiences in terms of, even though I never moved around and was based in Fayetteville, a lot of my friends would come for two years and leave. Or those of us who grew up in Fayetteville, I think were just very, you become quite adaptable and flexible in ways that you don't necessarily realize again is not the norm. But I think from an early age really helped me maintain relationships with people I care about, even if they're not physically co-located, which as an adult, I think I'm much more comfortable living away from my core community.
Willie Thompson:
That is really interesting about the connection between your local community and international affairs. Because this might be contagious, but I know geographically North Carolina is considered the south, but I don't consider it part of the Deep South, which I have friends who also went to UNC are from North Carolina, they debate me on this, but I do feel like for at least my upbringing, everything, connection to the rest of the world wasn't really something that was talked about a ton. And I do feel like being military base, there are certain sort of occupations that predisposition you to these events in ways that not being connected to them does. And unless something shocking happens, I had a high school classmate whose brother was killed in Afghanistan, and I remember-
Rachel Desch:
I'm sorry.
Willie Thompson:
Yeah, yeah, it was sad. I remember them driving his casket past the high school and everybody went outside to see it. And it's not until you see something happen on the news and then something happens to someone in that community and that's when things tend to come together. But what I'm hearing from you is that it was a steady stream of connection to what was going on outside the U.S. because of that dynamic. Which is interesting. Yeah, it's a totally interesting way to grow up. Talk to me about the transition from high school to college. Was UNC the only option? I'm just fascinated by this, because I had a very atypical college application situation, which I would not advise anyone to do, but I'm wondering, how did you approach college applying, landing on UNC and then how that got you to Stanford eventually?
Rachel Desch:
I'm telling this story like it's very clear cut, but I actually only applied to four universities in part.
Willie Thompson:
I feel so seen. Thank you.
Rachel Desch:
Yeah, my parents were like, "You're only going to one. Why apply to so many?" I applied to two schools in North Carolina and two in DC. Because again, I did feel inclined to do something in the more policy world. But within North Carolina, I was actually deciding between doing a engineering degree at NC State or international relations at UNC.
Willie Thompson:
So, Duke wasn't an option?
Rachel Desch:
I am a Carolina girl, Tar Heels all the way. No, Duke is beautiful, but quite expensive, so was definitely leaning towards more public universities. But when I was in high school, I actually went to a high school that had an engineering academy that I was enrolled in, the Integrated Systems Technology Academy. And so through that you essentially take what would equate to, I believe the first semester to maybe the first year of engineering classes you would take at college.
Willie Thompson:
Like a dual enrollment kind of thing?
Rachel Desch:
No, but yes. And that you're taking the skill, you're taking a lot of these classes, but they're not actually taught at the college level, so you're not getting accreditation.
Willie Thompson:
I see, I see.
Rachel Desch:
But you come in knowing a lot. And so, I really was considering a degree in civil engineering. I really loved the engineering courses I took in terms of you were just constantly giving problems and told to innovate solutions. But in the end I decided that I would probably want to pursue more of an international policy role, and so decided to go to UNC. And magically got a job with a poli-sci degree.
Willie Thompson:
You mentioned doing a lot of engineering work, civil engineering, and by the way, for a lay person, what's the difference between the types of engineering? Sometimes I forget what difference between civil engineers and industrial engineers and the MECIs and the Chemies. What are civil engineers? What are they preoccupied with? What are they concerned with?
Rachel Desch:
It's been a while, but I think civil engineering was more of architecture, building bridges, like stationary objects, versus mechanical is more things in motion and engines and things like that.
Willie Thompson:
And then what led you to switch from engineering, which you said you really enjoyed to something like political science?
Rachel Desch:
In part, I really did not like physics, and so I figured that would probably be a bit of a disqualifier. I was not great at physics, I should say. And I think in the back of my mind, in part, again, growing up in this really diverse community, I wanted to think a little bit more about, what are the forces that shape international policy? Who determines the trajectory of world politics and conflict? And these were questions that I think were really sitting on me, and that I would probably not have answered going into engineering.
Willie Thompson:
And this came as a result of the reflection you were doing based on your upbringing. I'm wondering, when did you start to feel there was a shift in the things that you were interested in, that you cared about?
Rachel Desch:
Yeah, I think throughout high school I kind of had one foot in engineering and one foot in the humanities.
Willie Thompson:
Yeah, love it.
Rachel Desch:
Story of my life is I hedge a lot with a lot of curiosity.
Willie Thompson:
Nothing wrong with hedging.
Rachel Desch:
I think in an ideal world I would've done a dual degree with both, but I'm happy with the choice I made. But really have a lot of respect for the engineers out there, especially those really good at physics.
Willie Thompson:
And then talk to me about your experience majoring in political science at UNC and how that led you to want to come to a place like Stanford?
Rachel Desch:
So at UNC we didn't actually have a traditional international relations degree. So my degree title is Peace, War, and Defense and Economics, so I double majored. When I was looking at courses, I really wanted to take courses across different disciplines. And so the Peace, War, and Defense major, which we called PWAD unfortunately, is offered a lot of flexibility in terms of what region I could look at, what topics I could take, a mixture of theory as well as regional studies, and so pursued that. And it was though more theory-based. And so halfway through my undergrad I decided to add on an economics degree. And I, to this day still have a love-hate relationship with economics.
Willie Thompson:
Tell me more, tell me more.
Rachel Desch:
I think it's so important in terms of understanding economic development and in terms of providing what at a macroeconomic level do states or governments need to think through or provide to elevate everyone to better financial means? But it is also a lot of theory, and sometimes I struggle with putting it into practice, even now I'm in a course that is heavy on econometrics and I feel like I'm really relearning a lot. So, I double-majored in PWAD and Econ, and then throughout college I was trying to take different internship opportunities. One formative moment was I did an internship with the U.S. State Department at the embassy in Riga, Latvia. And that was a really eye-opening experience in terms of being able to work in an embassy and actually see what a career in international relations could look like on a day-to-day and what policymaking and diplomacy looks like. I also, throughout college, and actually since high school, worked in retail, which is very humbling.
Willie Thompson:
Say more.
Rachel Desch:
As you know, it's very people oriented, you're selling, you're engaging with people, grumpy people, happy people, but you see a lot of humanity in retail.
Willie Thompson:
For sure.
Rachel Desch:
On the side of having the professional internships was also juggling, working a few part-time jobs on the side while in school, and kept me quite busy.
Willie Thompson:
So working at the Department of State. And then at what point are you thinking about graduate school?
Rachel Desch:
I wasn't thinking about graduate school at all. In part I did not really grow up with anyone having a master's degree or PhD. And so, to me, I didn't really think about it in terms of not having it as an option that was visible for me. But also, I think I wanted to get into the workforce, I was itching to put what I was learning into practice. I truly did not consider look at any graduate schools. After UNC I was lucky enough to get a job working in government right out of undergrad. And it was about five years into working that I realized I did want to go back to grad school and take some time to again sit back and think through some of these hard problems I was encountering.
Willie Thompson:
What was triggering that for you in terms of the five-year mark in grad school as an option?
Rachel Desch:
Yeah, I think I had been working on foreign policy analysis. And my job was to analyze what was happening on the ground, or essentially current events, like in a newspaper almost. It stopped short of actually advising policy. That was something that was done only by policymakers. As I was kind of hitting maybe that five-year mark, I was realizing I maybe wanted to do more in the policymaking space. And I didn't feel that I had the tools that would position me to do that well. And so, I was looking to come back to a school to do some research on international development and conflict resolution. And step back and be able to do that research in a space where you could make mistakes and it wouldn't have that much of a impact. Or I shouldn't say make mistakes and not have an impact, but I wanted to think about hard issues and a low-stakes environment.
Willie Thompson:
Yeah, I got it. And I think the academia and the university is a really good place for that, because the opportunity just to debate and go into depth around the pros, cons, why not for anything, for any natural or for anything that happens in the world. So I definitely think university makes sense. I have two questions that I'm going to try to meld into one, because it's really cool to hear about other people's work and disciplines. You mentioned wanting to go to grad school to get specific tools that would help you become a more effective policymaker. How, and you mentioned foreign policy analysis, which I think I know what that means, but I would love to get more of your take on what a good foreign policy analysis looks like. And so I'm wondering, how would you do policy analysis differently now having gone to grad school than you would have done it before?
Rachel Desch:
Yeah, that's a great question. I think a few different things to unpack there. Analysis can vary depending on what department or agency you're in, what institution, and there's definitely areas where it is more quantitative evaluating metrics and trying to make predictions of a specific policy, that your department or agency is trying to implement. And my work was more just researching what was happening and providing essentially the background segment to the policymaker.
Willie Thompson:
Got you.
Rachel Desch:
And so, in part why I did want to come back to grad school is I spent a lot of time working in that space of what is currently happening, what are the developments? Really building a strong foundation of understanding how to look at issues strategically. But I didn't have much experience or work in developing the actual policies that would address those issues. And so, I wanted to be able to come to Stanford or grad school generally and really think through and look back at what policies have worked in the past in terms of specifically conflict resolution and get an understanding of how we could create similar institutions or institutions that fit each specific instance best.
Willie Thompson:
Yeah, you're trying to find a solution that fits the context.
Rachel Desch:
Yes.
Willie Thompson:
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Rachel Desch:
And in part, so I did spend about five years working in that more analytics space or background analysis space. And in part because I was looking to get more involved in policymaking, I did a rotation to the White House and worked at the National Security Council in Legislative Affairs. And through there I was really able to broaden my scope to understand the whole of what the U.S. Government is doing in foreign policy. And how policy is made not just within the executive branch, but also Congress and how it really takes multiple institutions to drive change. And again, more on the qualitative side, understanding how funding is actually given and how you allocate limited resources and what those conversations look like.
Willie Thompson:
Awesome. I was going to say, if anyone took a look at your LinkedIn, they would know that you've worked in the federal government for almost a decade. I was doing the math just counting up the years and months, which includes multiple administrations. I'm thinking about [inaudible 00:24:33] been someone else who talked a lot about public service. Last two questions, but we can come back to the second one or I can remind you of it after we talked about the first one. But why did you choose government as a pathway for your career? And since you'll be, I assume returning after school, what does it mean to work in government given all that transpired since you've been a graduate student?
Rachel Desch:
So choosing government as a pathway, I think reflecting back was probably driven a lot by seeing that as the major employer growing up. And I knew I probably didn't want to enter military service, and so was exploring what other roles in government would look Like. I think you can have enormous impact working in government, and I really wanted to be a part of the team and the system that shapes that. And having a seat at the table to try to make the best policies possible. Despite growing up surrounded by the military, I think to some extent there also weren't a lot of examples for me of people who went on to government careers outside of a military entity. Honestly, growing up, moving to DC and working there seemed like a dream versus something that was necessarily attainable.
I really wanted to push that, break through that ceiling or the limitation I was kind of putting on myself. I think government should look like the people it represents in terms of ensuring a diversity of experiences. And it can feel like when you're small-town girl in North Carolina that the federal government can feel quite distant. And I wanted to close that distance and really understand more of how to get things done.
Willie Thompson:
I love what you just take on, how much you feel like working in government has changed in terms of the meaning people get from it or the value of working in government over the past, let's say four to six years?
Rachel Desch:
I think one thing that's interesting, to me at least, is that there are very few political appointees in government, and I think when you look at the news, that's what you tend to see. And it's what we keep track of because political appointees are in quite senior positions. But I was researching this right before I came in. I think there's about 4,000 political appointees in the government, and there's over a million people who work in federal agencies. So, the bulk of the federal government is made of normal, ordinary people as our political appointees, but-
Willie Thompson:
It's like less than half of a percent, less than half a percent, I think. Yeah.
Rachel Desch:
Yeah, I think for public service to make a generalization, I think a lot of people join it because they want to give back to their community or their country. And so there is this sense of service, improving the lives of others. As federal government employees, especially at least working in some of the departments and agencies I was in DC you make a pledge to the Constitution and to the service of the country. And so, I think I have worked across administrations. And administrations across both parties, and there were policies I agreed and disagreed with across both of those, or all three. And I think what keeps me going is that there's so much work that happens outside of the major news networks. And there's a lot of really incredible work that's happening behind the scenes. And I want to continue to be a part of that and ensuring that we are a constantly improving government and nation and having a seat at that table.
Willie Thompson:
For sure. And maybe this is a good segue into your Imagine A World statement, because there's a lot there that I want to get to. So there are three specific things that I want to get your thoughts on, and I'll just go in order. You mentioned trust in institutions and leaders. Being able to mitigate violence, violent conflict, and inspire innovative policymaking. So just taking that bit by bit, what does it take for people to build or increase their trust in institutions and leaders?
Rachel Desch:
Yeah, I think in part some of it is transparency from the institutions in government or leadership of just what is happening and how policies are negotiating. I think it involves a lot of community engagement, maybe more so than we currently see across both international institutions, as well as domestic. And that to me there has to be a conversation between those who are holding roles of power in decision making and those that they're representing. I think if you look at a lot of polls, there is an increasing distrust in government. In part, I think it's because it seems so inaccessible. And that people's representatives are not necessarily representing what each constituent thinks they need. And I, especially I think through Stanford, am really leaning into community and stakeholder engagement and really ensuring that institutions are established in a way that is functional, effective, but also represent the needs and goals of the communities. They are there to either govern or support or represent.
Willie Thompson:
Got it. And when you think about violent conflict, what about the issue of violent conflict made you situate that in the center of your Imagine A World statement?
Rachel Desch:
Yeah. I think a lot of my life and research has been focused on areas of conflict. Again, growing up I was always aware of the wars and conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq throughout the world. And then I think in part also at UNC, some of the research I did was on insurgencies in Latin America and political movements in Eastern Europe, so quite different, but in both cases. And I think what I've been drawn to is trying to understand how you can alleviate violence or mitigate violence to come to better negotiated agreements in terms of, I focus on violent conflict in part because it has such an impact on the lives of people who are not actively involved in the conflict as well. I think an alternative to my Imagine A World is I imagine a world with no war, but that's quite idealistic, but something I think I would still hope to attain one day.
A lot of my work has been researching areas of conflict, drivers of conflict, and trying to understand how to either end those, lessen. Or come to negotiated agreements, which is something I've spent more time here researching at Stanford, like transitional justice and different historic mechanisms and academic debates about what that looks like now. Something that I think has helped me and that I do think is really helpful for people who go into any sort of policymaking is to really have an understanding of the issue they're trying to solve in, have an understanding of the issue space. I'm interested in mitigating violent conflict through means other than more violence. In terms of taking a holistic approach to what you need, whether that's economic development, good governance structures, which is a convoluted topic in itself, or other issues. I think in order to mitigate conflict or even come to negotiated agreements or whether to mitigate conflict from occurring or negotiating conflict resolution, I strongly believe that you have to take a holistic approach.
And I think oftentimes we focus more on the immediate military action versus necessarily addressing the underlying root causes of why these circumstances occur.
Willie Thompson:
For sure, and based on our conversation earlier, I can tell that you are building, when you said economic development as an alternative as opposed to more violence. I could see maybe how that global finance, the global finance class, project management class could come into play there in terms of how you fund those things or how you think about sourcing.
Rachel Desch:
Exactly. I think something I didn't expect to love as much as I have at Stanford is classes on building infrastructure.
Willie Thompson:
Well, maybe it touches back to your civil engineering bit.
Rachel Desch:
Yes.
Willie Thompson:
Physical infrastructure.
Rachel Desch:
I'll still find a way to integrate it.
Willie Thompson:
For sure. And then the last thing you mentioned was how the relationship between trusted institutions and leaders mitigating violence and then inspiring innovative policymaking. So when you think about innovative policymaking, inspiring that, what does that entail? Is there an example that comes to mind of what the world could use more of?
Rachel Desch:
Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons I actually wanted to come to Stanford versus staying in what I call the DC bubble, is that I do think there's a lot we can learn from the startup culture, the entrepreneurial culture here in Silicon Valley in terms of being willing to take more risks. And I think that is something that there's a conversation about right now in terms of, are the amount of regulations we have, for example, infrastructure projects limiting the amount of innovation we're able to bring? And I think that applies across sectors even in more conflict resolution mechanisms in terms of, I think sometimes we can default to what's been done in the past, and sometimes that does work and there are best practices for a reason. But I think if we want to create a better world and address some of these complex problems we're dealing with, we're going to need to think of more innovative ways to do that.
And one thing that I think does happen in government is that it is so bureaucratic and you can really end up relying on standard operating procedures and things that have been done in the past. And I think we should try to create a culture of innovation and more risk-taking than I think we currently have. I think also with innovative policymaking, it requires imagining a world, honestly, imagining a new world. And thinking of the end state you want rather than necessarily starting with what you currently have and trying to maneuver that. And I think sometimes some of the most innovative ideas are things that are really out of the box, and focusing on the outcome you want. I think there's value in ideating what different systems can look like, and how we can adapt our current government structures, or even just general policies and regulations to encourage a more innovative world.
Willie Thompson:
My last two questions are about government, and one is about perception. What do people get wrong in their perceptions of government and government work? And then what do they get right?
Rachel Desch:
Although it is this big bureaucracy at times, I think there are really amazing pockets within it where there is a lot of innovative thought and a bit of honestly startup culture in terms of people really centering around mission, and people doing what they can to advance mission goals. I think government, what people may not realize is that not just in the military world, but across government and the broader bureaucracy there is a lot of mission-driven work in terms of people tend to work on things that they care really deeply about, and are really keen to improve the projects that they're working on.
Willie Thompson:
Yeah, for sure. And then that's in the realm of what people get wrong, right?
Rachel Desch:
Yeah.
Willie Thompson:
Now, where are they right in their perceptions of government?
Rachel Desch:
I think what people can get right is that it is a big bureaucracy and that it has a language of its own. I think just like the private sector has its own language and the medical field, you have to know how to navigate the systems in order to really have, be an effective agent of change. And in some ways, I think that is challenging and that I think government should be more accessible to people and easier to navigate.
Willie Thompson:
But the bureaucracy is still there.
Rachel Desch:
But the bureaucracy is still there.
Willie Thompson:
I understand. We talked about you working as advising in policy, wanting to go into policymaking. Policymaking in my mind tends to lean towards an elected position of sorts. So I'm just going to ask right here, for an Imaginal World Exclusive, are there any thoughts you have about running for public office someday?
Rachel Desch:
Yeah, I think it is something that I hadn't necessarily considered before coming to Stanford, but it's something I've been thinking about more now.
Willie Thompson:
How's your time here at Stanford enabled that idea of public office and running for it?
Rachel Desch:
Yeah, I think something I joke with my friends is that Stanford kind of gives you the audacity in terms of encircling back to innovation. It's a culture of not like no, but, but a yes and. And I think a very solution-oriented culture. And that's something where I've realized, not only do I want to potentially be informing policy, I think I would love the chance to actually work more directly on it. And not just have a seat at the table, but be at the head of the table. And I think also being at Stanford and outside of my DC bubble has made me realize how much knowing the language of government can be really helpful in ensuring that resources that are maybe made available at the federal level, are also accessible to the local communities that could benefit from the most. So I think coming to Stanford, there's been such a literal and figurative wealth of opportunity. And so much funding and just a culture of trying to be agents of change and different disciplines.
And that's something that I think I've increasingly wanted to find a way to contribute back to Fayetteville. Whether that is as an elected official or through just more community engagement. I think there's a lot of value in helping people understand what resources are there and making things more accessible.
Willie Thompson:
Absolutely. There's a number of perspectives I've encountered around how unattainable it can feel from a public office, depending on what level you're doing it at. And so I think definitely trying to find ways to make it feel more accessible are definitely noteworthy. And I'll leave it there. I'm going to transition now from all the government talk, and I want to get into some closing thoughts here. One is, any advice you would have for other people applying to Stanford and KH? And we need to get into some improbable facts. Because I want to know about the Black Belt TaeKwonDo. I want to learn about maybe the Michelin-esque food blog you got, or maybe even this trip to Coachella that you took with Santiago and Champ, but we'll get that in a second. But what advice do you have before we get to the fun stuff?
Rachel Desch:
Yeah, I think, I almost didn't apply to KH in Stanford. I almost counted myself out before even applying, and I actually-
Willie Thompson:
That's so crazy to me. Well, it's crazy to know you and see you do your thing that, oh, wow. You almost chose not to do it.
Rachel Desch:
I went to a KH info session when they were in DC and realized it was the last year I could apply, because I had been out of school for a bit. And also, one of the students who was actually speaking there made a comment of, "Don't count yourself out, you should apply." No one thinks they're going to get, no one walks in and says, "I'm going to get KH."
Willie Thompson:
Who is this magical student who gave you that boost of confidence?
Rachel Desch:
I really wish I had jotted down their name. To this day I was like, "This person surely inspired me to just submit the application." Because yeah, the worst that can happen is at some point you get a no. But that's what's happening if you're not applying anyway.
Willie Thompson:
That's a good point.
Rachel Desch:
And I think being your authentic self, in the KH application, you do a lot of soul-searching.
Willie Thompson:
For sure.
Rachel Desch:
And I think-
Willie Thompson:
Which is valuable in and of itself.
Rachel Desch:
It is. It's due so early that you really can use it as a base for other applications as well. But I think just be really genuine and true to who you are. Because I also was so on the fence about applying. I was working on it closer to the deadline, which I think also helped me not overthink what I was putting in and really come to it with my true and whole self.
Willie Thompson:
Beautiful. Now, let's talk about some improbable facts. And I mean, at least if you don't cover the Coachella trip in the improbable facts, I want to hear something about it. But as people know and improbable facts is inevitable part of the KH application experience, so could you share them improbable fact?
Rachel Desch:
Let me pull them up, I actually took a screenshot.
Willie Thompson:
Yeah. I was telling people recently that I actually did that exercise, and I was like, "I'm never doing this again." Because, or it was so hard to think of my improbable facts. I'm like, "Yeah, I'm not thinking about this actively, unless I need to."
Rachel Desch:
Yeah, I think the improbable facts are actually maybe where I spent the most time on my application-
Willie Thompson:
For sure.
Rachel Desch:
... in part, trying to understand what an improbable fact would be. What do you consider improbable for someone who doesn't know you and trying to highlight that. So yeah, I think I've just pulled up my improbable facts. And one, which ties into our conversation, was that while I did not pursue a degree in STEM, I attended a NASA space camp and worked on a project for a mission to Mars when I was in high school.
Willie Thompson:
Did the mission to Mars actually happen?
Rachel Desch:
No. No, but it was really exciting.
Willie Thompson:
Oh, very cool.
Rachel Desch:
I also never played soccer as a child, but I was captain of an adult soccer team, an adult recreational soccer team-
Willie Thompson:
Still adults.
Rachel Desch:
... in DC, which honestly brought me a lot of joy and a lot of great friends somewhat hinted at this. But I also don't know the criteria for a Michelin Star, but I did run an amateur food blog on Instagram.
Willie Thompson:
But you no longer run it, I'm assuming?
Rachel Desch:
It is still active, but I am perhaps not as active on it as I was.
Willie Thompson:
Makes sense. You're a graduate student in a very rigorous program.
Rachel Desch:
But I started actually in DC when I had first moved there in terms of, I'm a very goal-oriented person, and so I was setting a goal for myself to try new foods and really get out there and explore. And so, as I was trying to discover the DC food scene, I was like, "I bet other people might also enjoy this." And so I really did no promotion of the blog, but it started to naturally gain some followers, which was really exciting. I also was aiming to get some free food out of it as a recent college grad in a big city.
Willie Thompson:
Did that work?
Rachel Desch:
Unfortunately not. But I did get to do some pastry-making classes, which are really exciting based on the blog, so really fun times.
Willie Thompson:
Very cool. And just a quick aside, just humor me a bit. What's the food scene in a place like Palo Alto? What is it? And you can be honest.
Rachel Desch:
Yeah. My first thought as an active grad student is, it's pricey, but it's good. I think for folks listening, a lot of times Stanford will cater food.
Willie Thompson:
That's true.
Rachel Desch:
And so there are some staples of your Palo Alto diet, which include Zareen's, which is great Indian-Pakistani mix, orange hummus, great Mediterranean food. One that's on my bucket list that I will maybe eat when I'm back for an alumni reunion is Nobu Sushi.
Willie Thompson:
Oh, yeah, yeah. The Nobu restaurant. Yeah.
Rachel Desch:
Yeah. There's a good mix of food here, but sometimes out of reach of the student budget.
Willie Thompson:
For sure. And then I'll just get off on my Salt & Straw into here. Do you have-
Rachel Desch:
Love it.
Willie Thompson:
You love Salt & Straw?
Rachel Desch:
I love Salt & Straw.
Willie Thompson:
Wow. Okay, I think this is where we have a departure in our friendship. What do you love about Salt & Straw?
Rachel Desch:
I will say when I go to Salt & Straw, which is a local ice cream shop here.
Willie Thompson:
A creamery.
Rachel Desch:
A creamery.
Willie Thompson:
Yeah.
Rachel Desch:
I do stick with more traditional flavors.
Willie Thompson:
Okay.
Rachel Desch:
So, they're known for more off-the-wall creations, and I am a chocolate girl.
Willie Thompson:
Oh, the Gooey Chocolate Brownie is delicious.
Rachel Desch:
I will do the chocolate brownie time and time again. So, I have to say, as a non-adventurous ice cream eater, it's amazing.
Willie Thompson:
Okay. Okay. We made that caveat, now we agree. Yeah, I'm not on a mission to discredit Salt & Straw per se, but it is like I always, with the argument that they always go one ingredient over on the ice cream flavor. It's always one ingredient over. This past, recently I went and they're doing their monthly series is on, they're releasing a cookbook, which is interesting. Because I never thought about cookbook for ice cream, because I'm thinking, "Cooking and heat, whatever." But I remember going through the list of options, and I remember there was a vanilla custard with butterscotch swirls. So anyway, sorry. We're going to do a quick ice cream aside, because I know you're a foodie.
I always feel self-conscious about how many samples I can ask for at Salt & Straw. By the way, whoever trains the people at Salt & Straw about that, they're super nice about it. They are never like, "Okay, this the last one, or whatever." Because you probably go in there and be like, "I want to try eight flavors," and they'd let you try eight flavors. But anyway, but I always feel conscious about that, especially when the line is long.
Rachel Desch:
And the line is always long.
Willie Thompson:
Most of the times. And so, they had a vanilla custard with butterscotch, but I was like, I already have three or four flavors in mind, so I couldn't be like, "I'm going to try to go for the fourth or fifth." But it was Strawberries Tres Leches, which is fine. A Matcha Matcha Man ice cream that was Matcha with Tangerine. And then there was, I'm trying to think what the other one was. I didn't get the other one, but then I tried it, I think it was a Chocolate Chili Crisp Peanut Butter Cup ice cream. And I was like, "Yo, this sounds really good." And I remember trying it and being like, "Oh, okay." Because I was worried about the chili crisps. Because the chili crisps was like, "Why does that need to be an ice cream?" But then I got the sample and I was like, "Oh, I can't really taste it." It's maybe like a numbing thing. He would be a little bit of heat, whatever. So then I get a scoop with the waffle cone, of course, waffle cone is delicious.
Rachel Desch:
Of course.
Willie Thompson:
And then I'm eating it, delicious, because I think it was chocolate. It was a chocolate-based ice cream with you had peanut butter cups and a peanut butter marshmallow fluff. You know what I'm saying? I was like, "Wow, this sounds delicious." And then two bites in I get a mouthful of chili flakes.
Rachel Desch:
Oh no.
Willie Thompson:
I eat the rest of the ice cream, but I'm so upset that I bought the ice cream. Because I'm like, "Can you just take the chili flakes out? Can we get like a, like you got the vegan and the gluten-free options? Can you get the one ingredient removed option of the ice cream?" Because I would love to have a chocolate-based peanut butter cup, peanut butter marshmallows fluff ice cream.
Rachel Desch:
Yeah.
Willie Thompson:
And so the parts I had that weren't the chili flakes were phenomenal.
Rachel Desch:
Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with sometimes the one ingredient too far. I feel like sometimes I'll look and I'm like, "Oh, that sounds really good, except for-
Willie Thompson:
Except for.
Rachel Desch:
... that extra item." It's a challenge. I will say also, I love a good simple meal. Or a good classic in terms of, as many of my friends can tell you, I love Waffle House, which is-
Willie Thompson:
Rachel Desch, you know what, if we thought we were diverging in the path on the Salt & Straw thing, we are now converging once again on Waffle House.
Rachel Desch:
Yes.
Willie Thompson:
All-Star special.
Rachel Desch:
Yes.
Willie Thompson:
100%
Rachel Desch:
So good.
Willie Thompson:
Oh man.
Rachel Desch:
Yes. I will 100% stand behind Waffle House every time. It is an equalizer of people. It is amazing waffles. And I think, honestly, wherever I end up after Stanford, I have to be within an hour of a Waffle house.
Willie Thompson:
You would go an hour. I'm not being out here. I would travel sometimes. Didn't need a Waffle House out here. I mean, it doesn't really fit the culture of North Cal, and I don't know, crunchy, whatever. But the All-Star special with the hash brown smothered covered and all that good stuff-
Rachel Desch:
Diced, everything.
Willie Thompson:
Everything, diced, everything, with the eggs. And granted, I mean, maybe it's the health concerns. Because I kind of feel like if your Waffle House isn't close to being closed down for health concerns, I'm not really going to the Waffle House, right? Because that's kind of the vibe, right? Sticky floor, everything. But I feel like people here are more pristine.
Rachel Desch:
No, I love it. I love a good Waffle House waffle.
Willie Thompson:
Oh, man. I haven't had Waffle House in a long time.
Rachel Desch:
I know. I think whenever I go back to North Carolina, I always try to make a Waffle House stop.
Willie Thompson:
Oh, man. Oh, man. That made my day. Well, cool. Well, Rachel, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Actually no, before we go, tell me about this Coachella trip. I want to hear about this Coachella trip.
Rachel Desch:
Coachella trip. Yeah.
Willie Thompson:
Real quick.
Rachel Desch:
It was my first time at Coachella. I was a little worried it would probably be over hyped, but it was fabulous.
Willie Thompson:
Are you a concert goer? Do you go to concerts?
Rachel Desch:
I am a concert goer. I love live music.
Willie Thompson:
Okay. All right.
Rachel Desch:
As you mentioned, we actually, I went with three other KH scholars from my year. And we did car camping, which honestly, it was excellent. We had a really big tent. We had some snacks. And it was just really great to be fully immersed in a music vibe, a music culture. You get to spend almost 12 hours just listening to music. And then come back and immediately fall asleep and do it all over again for three days.
Willie Thompson:
And the car camping is like, you pull up your car somewhere and then you just put up a tent and you just camp out, is that?
Rachel Desch:
Yeah. So, some people were sleeping in their cars, but we did do mildly bougie in terms of we had our tent, but then we also brought air mattresses, because most of us were over 30. And-
Willie Thompson:
The back, look, my lower back was killing me last night, so I get it. Yeah.
Rachel Desch:
I wanted to be able to dance and survive three days.
Willie Thompson:
Absolutely.
Rachel Desch:
But yeah, Coachella was amazing. I think definitely worth the cost in terms of just the production value of all the sets. I definitely associated with a lot of the memes of girl math being like, okay, well, if I would've seen all these six artists separately, it would've been more than what I'm paying. So really I'm saving money by being here.
Willie Thompson:
Sure. That works. And as we close, best act, most surprising act? And that could be positive or negative.
Rachel Desch:
Oh, yeah. I think best act would have to be Lady Gaga. She threw a performance.
Willie Thompson:
I believe it.
Rachel Desch:
Someone was saying it was like Mozart's Symphony for the first time in terms of she just went all out. It was like almost watching an opera, a musical.
Willie Thompson:
Wow.
Rachel Desch:
So, it was fabulous. And most surprising, I think I really liked Benson Boone, which-
Willie Thompson:
Oh, yeah. I've been hearing a lot about Benson Boone.
Rachel Desch:
I think when you listen to him, it's a very chill vibe. And then seeing him live, he brought so much energy to the stage that I, he definitely converted me into a fan.
Willie Thompson:
Okay. All right. Benson Boone fan. All right. Well, Rachel, thank you so much for making the time to be part of an episode of Imagine A World. You've been on the team forever, so it's great to have even a member of the team join and be interviewed on the pod. So, thank you for everything you've done for the pod, for us and for the community. And honestly, what you're going to do for the world after you graduate and go off into the world.
Rachel Desch:
Thank you for everything you do. You really built this podcast, and it's just an incredible way to learn more about people in the community, and hear what passions are driving people's careers and research.
Willie Thompson:
Yeah, for sure. I'm glad I was able to share space with you, and yeah, I can't wait to keep up with all the things you're going to do after Stanford. So thanks for making the time again, and take care.
Rachel Desch:
Thanks.
Sydney Hunt:
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Imagine A World, where we hear from inspiring members of the KHS community who are making significant contributions in their respective fields, challenging the status quo, and pushing the boundaries of what is possible as they imagine the world they want to see.
Willie Thompson:
This podcast is sponsored by Knight-Hennessey Scholars at Stanford University, a multidisciplinary, multicultural graduate fellowship program providing scholars with financial support to pursue graduate studies at Stanford, while helping equip them to be visionary, courageous, and collaborative leaders who address complex challenges facing the world. Follow us on social media at Knight-Hennessey, and visit our website at kh.stanford.edu to learn more about the program and our community.
